Going Pay-as-You-Dine

[fairywings54]

Hi everyone I am new to the website and would like an answer to this question please: we are about to go Pay-as-You-Dine but not enough is known about it. I am an MOD Civilian and I have currently 2o+ staff who I manage and they are asking all manners of questions but not getting the right results. Most are asking is it better? some are asking are the wages staying the same after they have TUPE across and beein in the post a year or so. All of these questions no one has been able to actually confirm so I am hoping that someone out there will help me allay these fears or tell me the truth and not wrap it up in a sugar coated paper with a nice neat bow as they have done up until now. I suppose basically I am asking is it worth staying for? Thanks.

 

[FOMz]

Can I just clarify that you are an Mod civvy managing 20+ serviceman, or an Mod civvy managing 20+ civvies?

 

[shettie]

Looking at the word TUPE - I would say Civilians... - Tupe is the transfer of your present terms and conditions to your new employer - whatever you get at the moment - you'll get what you have now - or if the new company don'y have the same - you should get an equivalent term or condition... (should not (!) leave you out of pocket, but in my experience of TUPE - my pension has taken a hammering over the last 2 (with the loss of a final salary pension on the first! )


Edited as I have fingers like pigs nipples today!!

 

[fairywings54]

Fonz and Shettie

Fonz and Shettie

Yes I am a Civvy and yes I manage 20+ Civilians not RAF as these are managed by Servicemen. I did hear that the Pension would get a hammering but it is the unknown that is worrying my staff and no matter how much sugar coating it is being given there is something worrying everyone despite what we have been told would remain the same because RAF Leuchars has done so. Hmmm not sure about that one, can anyone enlighten me?

 

[muttywhitedog]

I thought Civvies were all on Pay As You Dine (ie, you buy a meal ticket if you want to eat in a Mess).

 

[fairywings54]

I thought Civvies were all on Pay As You Dine (ie, you buy a meal ticket if you want to eat in a Mess).

No not all of us are working for a Civvy Company and yes some of us MOD employees do still exist believe it or not. I am proud to work for the MOD and would not want it any other way to be truthful. To answer another question, yes we pay for our meals like everyone else, but my question is purely a working question aimed at other personnel who have gone over to pay-as-you-dine and their experiences of such.

 

[Trusty Adjusty]

If what you're asking is just whether or not Pay as You Dine is as good value as the old system of buying a meal ticket - then no it isn't in my opinion.

Having experienced PAYD at an Army and a Navy establishment, I can tell you that the Navy version was particularly poor value and quality (unhealthy, restricted choice and expensive) the Army version was better (Army chefs for the most part) however the choice and cost were still pretty poor.

Having eaten in many "normal messes" - I'll use Marham as my example - where no-one blinks if I have cereal followed by full english followed by fruit and 2 brews (and maybe more) you cannot fault the value. RAF livers out pay two quid or something ridiculous - civillians not much more. The same is reflected at lunch and Dinner, where there is good choice, healthy options and all at ludicrously cheap prices for service and civillian staff who live out.

In PAYD the "core meal" is supposed to reflect what is offered in standard messes - it doesn't. You can't have multiple dishes and therefore cannot eat til your full. You are entitled to one cup of squash and bread is packed individually at individual cost - it really is that anal. There is no doubt your staff will probably pay more for less.

The only winners in PAYD are the singley scrotes who live in the block in the dark on their Xboxes only stopping for a pot noodle and a can of red bull before returning to Call of Duty 4 talking via bluetooth to another singley scrote in the room next door and thus save money from not eating!

Sorry - got carried away there.....

 

[fairywings54]

If what you're asking is just whether or not Pay as You Dine is as good value as the old system of buying a meal ticket - then no it isn't in my opinion.

Having experienced PAYD at an Army and a Navy establishment, I can tell you that the Navy version was particularly poor value and quality (unhealthy, restricted choice and expensive) the Army version was better (Army chefs for the most part) however the choice and cost were still pretty poor.

Having eaten in many "normal messes" - I'll use Marham as my example - where no-one blinks if I have cereal followed by full english followed by fruit and 2 brews (and maybe more) you cannot fault the value. RAF livers out pay two quid or something ridiculous - civillians not much more. The same is reflected at lunch and Dinner, where there is good choice, healthy options and all at ludicrously cheap prices for service and civillian staff who live out.

In PAYD the "core meal" is supposed to reflect what is offered in standard messes - it doesn't. You can't have multiple dishes and therefore cannot eat til your full. You are entitled to one cup of squash and bread is packed individually at individual cost - it really is that anal. There is no doubt your staff will probably pay more for less.

The only winners in PAYD are the singley scrotes who live in the block in the dark on their Xboxes only stopping for a pot noodle and a can of red bull before returning to Call of Duty 4 talking via bluetooth to another singley scrote in the room next door and thus save money from not eating!

Sorry - got carried away there.....

Marham is I might add a superb example as yes I know it well. The chefs are second to none but sadly it will be going Pay as you Dine soon. I also am well aware of the poor choice or so I have been told. I wish oh do I wish that no one takes over because RAF Chefs are superb as are the Civvy Chefs too. I feel sad very sad to have this part taken away from so many service personnel. I am doing my job managing the civvies and they have my trust and my respect as I do them. I will not go to another employer who does not respect the RAF or the Service Personnel and uses them as a CASH COW! I served in the Army a few years back and I loved my life as I do now, I would not work on civvy street if you paid me to. The singly scrotes will look at one hand with enough money for food and the other with enough money for a beer and a bag of crisps, what will they do? you and I know what they will do DRINK and not eat.

 

[KingGuin]

PAYD is now known as CRL. If you serve at an RAF Unit at some time in the past 2 years, a CRL briefing team (HQ AIR) should have visited. Whether such was inclusive of civil servants is another matter. This team not only deal with implementation but address those concerns e.g. cost and poor menus, which constantly crop up.

At our secret Northern fighter base the scheme has been in place for almost 4 years and seems to work well. The civilian staff I work with eat in one of our 2 outlets daily and are invariably complementary about what and how they are served.

 

[flamingfirebird]

KingGuin either you work for ESS or have never visited said secret northern fighter airbase. The food the serve, sorry slop up for you is disgraceful, having seen what they can do when not strangled by their regulations (i.e. 2 mushrooms per tray, 1 oz of this 1 oz of that!) is far better and more resembles food. I'm not saying that old messes were fine dining but it was far superior to the s;'#e they produce now. I pity any camp that is soon changing over. DT_Xtremez_34: DT_Xtremez_06: Calling it food is almost as funny as saying the RAF is not going to be touched in the SDR!!you've got tokidding Anyway back to the question NO its not worth it!

 

[fed_up_scribbly]

Is it just me or am I reading the OPs post the wrong way? I get the impression that he's asking about the working conditions/salary of civvy MOD catering staff who have to transfer across to the new contractor, i.e will they end up being shafted on the wages front rather than the quality of service provided to the punters (which most will agree is less than we would like).

Unfortunately I am not in a position to answer this sort of question but maybe somebody who has made a similar transition would be able to give their take on the matter?

 

[KingGuin]

KingGuin either you work for ESS or have never visited said secret northern fighter airbase. The food the serve, sorry slop up for you is disgraceful, having seen what they can do when not strangled by their regulations (i.e. 2 mushrooms per tray, 1 oz of this 1 oz of that!) is far better and more resembles food. I'm not saying that old messes were fine dining but it was far superior to the s;'#e they produce now. I pity any camp that is soon changing over. DT_Xtremez_34: DT_Xtremez_06: Calling it food is almost as funny as saying the RAF is not going to be touched in the SDR!!you've got tokidding Anyway back to the question NO its not worth it!

LMAO, ESS couldn't afford me.

Off Topic I've eaten in all 3 Messes and the retail outlet at the Northern base and never had a problem with the food. Conversely I've known others send it back. Its all relative, you get what you pay for. Perhaps that's why ESS are so nervous given the contract for said Unit is shortly due for renewal. Off Topic

 

[The Masked Geek]

I get the impression that he's asking about the working conditions/salary of civvy MOD catering staff who have to transfer across to the new contractor, i.e will they end up being shafted on the wages front rather than the quality of service provided to the punters (which most will agree is less than we would like).

You are correct and he is quite clear about that. DT_Xtremez_14: