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Changes to R&R Policy

  • Thread starter KnowitallsknowNothing
  • Start date

Mug?

Flight Sergeant
1,347
2
38
me too

me too

They could have changed all our OOAs to 6 monthers so I dont mind the sound of this change. I would much rather an (almost) 4 monther with no RandR to a 6 monther with.

the 6 month det is too long, it might be ok for someone who goes out doing the same job and doesn't have a family.

Singlies go and do your 6 months (or even better 2x4 monthers back to back) bank your op allowance, hope you get back to spend it and keep your ideas of 6 monthers to yourself......
 
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I gotta admit I don't like the idea of 6 monthers, mostly because I do enjoy going away and at the moment 4 months isn't too long and the gap between isn't either - but if it was 6 months I would get itchy feet waiting between dets, and bored after 4 months for the other 2!

Though somehow I get the feeling that even if they all went to 6 months, they would come around about as frequent as they do now, that doesn't make sense mathematically but I bet somehow that would be the case....
 

True Blue Jack

Warrant Officer
4,438
0
0
- just think what uproar there would be at your place for example if some of the TG17 based there had to leave Lincolnshire after a 6 month OOA because someone else had come in to replace them!!!!

It might do some of them some good. :pDT_Xtremez_06:

I agree with you, fixed tour lengths are not practical or desirable for most people but I do think that longer op tours would, after the initial bedding in, actually make life easier in the main.

The issue with gapping posts at home while people are deployed isn't going to go away as long as so many of our deployments are NFU but I don't see how we could change that. To make a fast jet squadron, for example, fully self-supporting is just not realistic.
 

Realist78

Master of my destiny
5,522
0
36
Increase it to 6 months, increase the queue at the Med centre for downgrades, end result will be TRTs keeping the status quo or worse IMO.
 
6 month dets

6 month dets

I'm not sure if it's true, but I've heard from a friend in the SF world that if you do a continuous 6 month det - with no R&R, that you can claim all your income tax back. It also applies if you do a continuous 12 month det.

Is this true - any shiney types confirm this?
 

Mightierthan

Corporal
411
0
16
I'm not sure if it's true, but I've heard from a friend in the SF world that if you do a continuous 6 month det - with no R&R, that you can claim all your income tax back. It also applies if you do a continuous 12 month det.

Is this true - any shiney types confirm this?

Yes, it's true enough. Just fill in a form P155 using the code T4KE
 
D

Douglas Bader's Right Leg

Guest
I actually look forward to my RnR and tend to need it after working 6 or 7 day weeks for a couple of months. In Basra apart from my RnR I had 3 days off and even volunteered to be armed guard with the fuel convoy for a day off just sitting in the big mobile bomb, sorry tanker, hoping no-one attacked us. If we hadn't had RnR our Warrant at the time would still have had us in every day and I would have come home even more burnt out than I was.

You're welcome to 'phone one of the PBs in Helmand and explain that point of view to someone from 40 Commando who could end up doing 5 months before he gets RNR, or who could get RNR in month 2 and end up pushing the last 4.5 months without a day off.

In short our RNR policy did not stand up to scrutiny in a joint environment where our sister services are serving 6 month tours and many senior officers are serving 9 to 12 month tours. MOD has made no secret that this will reduce airbridge usage by 11% and it is not unreasonable to expect us to push 4 months without RNR in the sort of environments we generally work in.

Personally I don't like RNR because I have to say goodbye to the wife and child again, but my next tour will be 6 months and I suspect I'm going to need the break this time!

Another duty rumour is that we could build a RNR camp at Bastion and all RNR would be taken in theatre. But I'm pretty sure that it is only a rumour...
 
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fed_up_scribbly

Corporal
216
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0
Increase it to 6 months, increase the queue at the Med centre for downgrades, end result will be TRTs keeping the status quo or worse IMO.

Unfortunately I think you're probably right on this point Realist. When I processed the BZZ NFU committment for TELIC I was shocked by the sheer number of people who suddenly found themselves downgraded once their tasking had been issued by A1 Ops. I found it really hard to stop myself from accusing them of cowardice and the like but my opinion of them was evident just the same. I really don't know how these people can look at themselves in the mirror each morning.

PS

Yes I do realise that a small % would be genuine cases but we are talking lots here - at least 20% of all taskings received and all within a relatively short space of time. W4nkers!!
 

muttywhitedog

Retired Rock Star 5.5.14
1000+ Posts
4,602
644
113
Another duty rumour is that we could build a RNR camp at Bastion and all RNR would be taken in theatre. But I'm pretty sure that it is only a rumour...

I'd also heard that they were going to set up an outward-bound style R&R Camp which would offer activities such as hill-walking in the Tora Bora.
 
S

Shitehawk

Guest
Made me laugh when I read the missive from OC 90SU - 'this brings the rest of the RAF into line with our policy'.

So you make one f**ked up decision and the rest of the RAF follows? I dont think so.
 

Joe_90

Flight Sergeant
1000+ Posts
1,727
0
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You're welcome to 'phone one of the PBs in Helmand and explain that point of view to someone from 40 Commando who could end up doing 5 months before he gets RNR, or who could get RNR in month 2 and end up pushing the last 4.5 months without a day off.

I expected to get the usual someone else has it worse than you answer when I posted that, I think it makes a lot of people on here feel somehow superior. If that's the way we want to operate then conditions get worse and worse as we cast around looking for someone with a worse post to bring conditions down to, or we could look at what the best conditions are, RnR for a four monther, and aim for that for everyone.
As an aside, 2 weeks after returning what will 40 Commando be doing? It's a genuine question because unless they are fighting wars or training for them, which they can't be doing constantly, what do "Tooth Arms" do in the UK or Germany?
 
D

Douglas Bader's Right Leg

Guest
I expected to get the usual someone else has it worse than you answer when I posted that, I think it makes a lot of people on here feel somehow superior. If that's the way we want to operate then conditions get worse and worse as we cast around looking for someone with a worse post to bring conditions down to, or we could look at what the best conditions are, RnR for a four monther, and aim for that for everyone.
As an aside, 2 weeks after returning what will 40 Commando be doing? It's a genuine question because unless they are fighting wars or training for them, which they can't be doing constantly, what do "Tooth Arms" do in the UK or Germany?

The point is that our RNR policy does not stand up to scrutiny by the other services and, with a few notable exceptions, our OOA tours are cushy - hard work, but cushy. Once they RTU and return to duty after PODL the teeth arms immediately begin training for the next Op tour and they train as they fight where possible - they put as much effort into their Exs as they do into Ops.

In theory the only part of the military who have time to sit around polishing things and drinking tea are the Royal Armoured Corps, because Chally 2 isn't deployed, but you will note that the RDG are deployed on HERRICK in an armoured support role driving Vikings so there isn't much respite for them either.
 
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This policy has given me a right kick in the old knackers. I'm due OOA in Jan, and my wife is pregnant, due to drop in March. I was hoping to wangle my R & R to coincide with the birth date.

Now I don’t want to drop someone else in the poo, but what are my choices now? I'd rather not pull that card, and the R & R would have hopefully given me a chance to complete my OOA and be there for my wife and child.

I fully aware of what the Chf Clk and manning can do for me, but surely the policy stating 'it puts an hardship (or whatever it was) on family life' has surely been trumped in this instance?

On another point, exactly how many aircraft do we provide primarily for the purpose of R & R? I thought they just jumped on the next trooper available? If one was not available you caught the next one that was? How would savings be borne from this (honest question)?

What about the peeps in the Falklands? They could never get an ac home for R & R, so how does this save them any money here (apart from not providing vehicles etc)

I think a bit more thought should go into this. If the sole purpose is to place us into 6 month dets, then please do it. The cynical side of me says that they want us to kick up a stink about it, so they can then give us the solution of the 6 months (where you get R & R) to the problem
 

True Blue Jack

Warrant Officer
4,438
0
0
This policy has given me a right kick in the old knackers. I'm due OOA in Jan, and my wife is pregnant, due to drop in March. I was hoping to wangle my R & R to coincide with the birth date.

Now I don’t want to drop someone else in the poo, but what are my choices now? I'd rather not pull that card, and the R & R would have hopefully given me a chance to complete my OOA and be there for my wife and child.

I fully aware of what the Chf Clk and manning can do for me, but surely the policy stating 'it puts an hardship (or whatever it was) on family life' has surely been trumped in this instance?

On another point, exactly how many aircraft do we provide primarily for the purpose of R & R? I thought they just jumped on the next trooper available? If one was not available you caught the next one that was? How would savings be borne from this (honest question)?

What about the peeps in the Falklands? They could never get an ac home for R & R, so how does this save them any money here (apart from not providing vehicles etc)

I think a bit more thought should go into this. If the sole purpose is to place us into 6 month dets, then please do it. The cynical side of me says that they want us to kick up a stink about it, so they can then give us the solution of the 6 months (where you get R & R) to the problem

OK, lots of points to be addressed here. Firstly, had your career manager been aware that your wife was pregnant you would probably been overlooked for a few rotations before being warned for deployment. That's not going to help you now, but bear it in mind if you plan any more kids.

Secondly, if you were planning to be home on R&R for your child's birth then it's either for a scheduled caesarian or it's your first child and you have yet to appreciate how inconsiderate the little bu99ers can be!

I'm not an expert on calculating aircraft passenger requirements except to say that R&R is a big part of the calculation. For reasons that I won't go into here, R&R travel is afforded a higher priority than almost any other category with the obvious exception of casualty and compassionate travel. The decision on the number and type of trooping aircraft allocated to the airbridge will have been made after taking all factors into account. That said, serviceability of aircraft is a different issue and we all know that delayed/cancelled flights have a much larger impact than might reasonably be planned for.

The RAF Families' Federation, who were involved in the decision to enforce the R&R policy more stringently than before, have stated that a standard tour of 4 months (albeit without R&R) should be maintained, so we're not looking at wholesale longer op tours. Yet.

Finally, back to you. What is more important to you - the guilt that you will feel at forcing one of your colleagues to deploy 4 months early, or the guilt that you will feel at missing the birth of your son/daughter? It's a tough choice and only you can make it.
 

Quagmire

LAC
88
11
8
Finally, back to you. What is more important to you - the guilt that you will feel at forcing one of your colleagues to deploy 4 months early, or the guilt that you will feel at missing the birth of your son/daughter? It's a tough choice and only you can make it.

condescending adjective

/ˌkɒn.dɪˈsen.dɪŋ//ˌkɑːn-/ adj disapproving

treating someone as if you are better or more important than them

I hate the way he's so condescending to his staff
 

Dan_Brown

Sergeant
946
135
43
Finally, back to you. What is more important to you - the guilt that you will feel at forcing one of your colleagues to deploy 4 months early, or the guilt that you will feel at missing the birth of your son/daughter? It's a tough choice and only you can make it.

Tough choice? I don't think so. With the sick, lame and lazy been promoted and not deploying? OOA or miss the birth of your first child? No choice at all.

Family first everytime and that is only because the penpushers are backing us further and further into a corner.
 
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