Sorry.. JPA question that I should know.

[4everAD]

I'm getting a little confused by all this, I'm off to RIAT next month on actuals for 3 nights so, if I read all previous posts correctly I can't go to Tescos and get a sandwich/drink/crisps et al? Also buying a cup of tea at 10am and 3pm
would be a sin, remind me what time the RAF generally have tea breaks?

So do I now have to go see my Audit clerk with a list of what I propose to eat and drink for 3 days to get prior approval?

As previously said and intimated the "system" is now set up to intimidate you into not reclaiming money in case you're accused of fraud.

 

[RAF Bird]

within my own management crisps can only be claimed for if they are a part of a meal deal but not on their own, ......

So your telling me that if I have to go for an early lunch due to work then will be getting a late dinner due to work again (as I had this weekend) and I'm feeling hungary at approx 1600hrs 2/3 hours before I get the chance for dinner you think it is unreasonable to purchase a bag of crisps?

It shouldn't be an issue of being able to afford it...If my 'firm' wants me to go somewhere on their business thay can stump up the money I incur during that period of duty (within the daily limit of course)...end of.

If they don't want to do that I don't go...end of.

I quite agree mate.

 

[Joe_90]

The problem is exactly as Busby says, different audit clerks okay different things and they shouldn't be able to do this. This thread was started by someone unable to claim for a coffee, if you're away from home and a Section for the day and feel thirsty why shouldn't you claim for a drink if you're on subsistence? It's hardly the shopping list they are trying to stop, one clerk has decided they will save the Defence budget by denying someone £2 for a coffee, the JSP is deliberately wooly so that they can do this to us, one of the benefits of the RAF is that they have a responsibility to look after us when it comes to things like refreshments when your away from Unit, it should be written exactly what you can claim for and in what circumstances that way the rules are applied evenly across the board.

 

[Sospan]

The problem with the current system is that its massively open to interpretation, the authoriser and the auditor may read the JSP differently. Each unit will be stricter on certain parts of the rules. If the DS was a flat un-receipted rate it would be easy, either entitled or not. It would make the system fair and stop all of them embarrassing squabbles over bills in restaurants and trying to get a receipt out of a dodgy kebab shop when overseas.

..... and back to the real world....

 

[duffman]

If the DS was a flat un-receipted rate it would be easy, either entitled or not. It would make the system fair and stop all of them embarrassing squabbles over bills in restaurants and trying to get a receipt out of a dodgy kebab shop when overseas.

..... and back to the real world....

Nahhh we couldn't have that it would never workDT_Xtremez_42:

 

[duffman]

Yep plenty latitude in the JSP open to discression because it must cover every tri service possibility. Had it where only meals could be claimed right through to everything as long as it wasn't loaf of bread, 2lb of mince and so on. Any truth to the never ending rumour of rates being brought back?

 

[rest have risen above me]

A "T" letter was issued a few months ago specifically outlawing "shopping list" style claims.

As an auditor and someone who has had to endure this farcical system on an overseas exercise, i've got to say the whole thing is a shambles. I've had to bill people 10p because they handed their receipts in and had miscalculated, whereas I have also seen people "lose" a weeks' worth of receipts but not have to pay the whole week's money back!

Any chance of a direction to look for this T letter please. so I don't get caught out again.

 

[Max Reheat]

As I was reminded earlier, we had an admin clerk on det with us once, he said he'd forget about reciepts if we took a cut in our allowance. Rule bending to suit himself if ever I've seen it

 

[vim_fuego]

I'm getting a little confused by all this, I'm off to RIAT next month on actuals for 3 nights so, if I read all previous posts correctly I can't go to Tescos and get a sandwich/drink/crisps et al? Also buying a cup of tea at 10am and 3pm
would be a sin, remind me what time the RAF generally have tea breaks?

So do I now have to go see my Audit clerk with a list of what I propose to eat and drink for 3 days to get prior approval?

As previously said and intimated the "system" is now set up to intimidate you into not reclaiming money in case you're accused of fraud.

I'm at RIAT Thurs through to Monday...I'll be on the airfield 0800-1900 Fri through to Sunday (probably much later on the Sunday)...

Tell me how many of the burger/food vans hand out receipts?

I've found in the past that it pays to dine alongside the highest ranking person possible...good top cover.

 

[muttywhitedog]

Any chance of a direction to look for this T letter please. so I don't get caught out again.

It was in a Corporate Governance Newsletter. I'll pm you the intranet link tomorrow cos i'm not allowed to quote them here!

 

[Downsizer]

Well after spending the last 5 hours in the company of SIB I can safely say I'll think twice about bothering to volunteer to go anywhere again.

Without wishing you to get in any more bother, are you able to expand on what brought about this investigation?

 

[fatboy11]

Same here mate now refuse point blank to go away unless ordered.....why should we fork out up front to go any where for the 'cause' very very sad!! is the pension worth this sh1t.......am beginning to wonder DT_Xtremez_37:

 

[Max Reheat]

Without wishing you to get in any more bother, are you able to expand on what brought about this investigation?

Not gonna go into too much detail in a public forum. All I'll say is I'm happy that my actions are legal and above board. It's just trying to prove it now.

 

[vim_fuego]

It was in a Corporate Governance Newsletter. I'll pm you the intranet link tomorrow cos i'm not allowed to quote them here!

Can I have some of the same please? What is the difference between a T letter and a corporate governance newsletter? What authority does a newsletter carry?

 

[shirley]

It was in a Corporate Governance Newsletter. I'll pm you the intranet link tomorrow cos i'm not allowed to quote them here!

Would you be able to send me the link too please, if you wouldnt mind.

 

[Downsizer]

To not allow a coffee would be harsh!

As a Unit Auditor, the only change I have been made aware of is that personnel should not be presenting a "shopping list" of items as DS is for prepared meals.

A "T" letter was issued a few months ago specifically outlawing "shopping list" style claims.

I've just had this discussion with the DAO on the det I am on now...she reckons we can still buy goods from the supermarkets as we are on an exercise.....she reckons the "prepared meal" as such only applies in normal DS circumstances as opposed to exercise DS circumstances....

Before I land myself in the poo is there any clarification of this in the T letter as I don't trust her at all....

 

[muttywhitedog]

I've just had this discussion with the DAO on the det I am on now...she reckons we can still buy goods from the supermarkets as we are on an exercise.....she reckons the "prepared meal" as such only applies in normal DS circumstances as opposed to exercise DS circumstances....

Before I land myself in the poo is there any clarification of this in the T letter as I don't trust her at all....

Interesting.

Are you on an overseas exercise, in which the DAO was briefed by the A1 Finance Team at High Wycombe, because they briefed me in detail both times I did Det Cashier (the last one being Nov 09) that food bought unprepared (ie could not be opened up and eaten immediately) could not be claimed for. It got so ridiculous that when we had a BBQ, we could claim for the salad & buns, but not the burgers!

To amplify on the shopping list thing. What they are clamping down on is people who spent over £25 at a shop on grapes, biscuits, cheeses, chocolates, sandwiches, quiches, smoothies, crisps etc etc when their claim was for travelling for 5 hours from one unit to another. People were effectively doing part of their weekly grocery shop at the taxpayers expense!

As far as I'm aware, if you are overseas on a 3 week exercise and you want to buy 5 cartons of smoothies, fruit, a piece of cheese and a tub of pringles for you to consume in your hotel room, there is nothing to stop you buying them from a commercial establishment - in fact doing so is cheaper than buying them from the hotel!

Mods,

As I'm getting so many requests for the link to this newsletter, please allow me to put it in this thread once I get to work!

 

[Realist78]

Sorry forgot to mention about sharing the bill

It's not a great solution for the resturant; however, if each person pays their share of the bill on a credit/debit card then they will each have a personel receipt of expenditure in the form of the card transaction receipt.

Not applicable in all cases; but, an option.

That is a gross understatement. It's fcuking embarassing in the least, showing the RAF in a bad light. Also, try doing it in a foreign restaurant where the language barrier is firmly up. Drop the rate by a few quid and issue it like the old rates, no questions or auditing, any guesses as to how much that would save?

 

[MingMong]

Mods,

As I'm getting so many requests for the link to this newsletter, please allow me to put it in this thread once I get to work!

Unfortunately, we can't allow intranet links (or content pasted from the intranet) to be posted on the site.

Not our rules, but rules that we are forced to follow to keep our IGS status.

 

[muttywhitedog]

Ok, the guidance is along the lines of:

DS is the reimbursement of actual receipted costs for food and drink during the day for periods of over 5 hours absence from the permanent or temporary assignment station.

DS reimburses breakfast and/or lunch and/or dinner costs and enables an individual to be reimbursed for actual, receipted costs for subsistence expenditure whilst on duty away from home, i.e. the costs of eating and drinking incurred (this includes coffee/tea), up to the DS capped limit. Meals should be interpreted as prepared food, which can range from several courses to a sandwich.

Claims should be reasonable, not excessive in nature and provide good value for the MOD. They should directly relate to the duty concerned and should only be for expenditure which would not have been incurred but for the duty. Claims submitted for excessive quantities of chocolates, sweets and crisps are to be recovered.

As I read it, if you are away from your permanent place of work for over 5 hours you can have a coffee!

Also, if the "shopping list" presents good value for the MOD then its ok. My example of getting a few snacks from a BX whilst in the USA, versus paying 3 times the amount in the hotel bar for the same items would back up that aspect.