Thompson and Venables - Bulger killers

[Oberon305]

Just a thought......I'm not for one minute saying that they aren't guilty and shouldn't get what they deserve, but I can't help but think that they can't have had the best up-bringing to have been capable of doing it in the first place.

Apparently the 2 little ****s were given free access to adult-rated films like 'Halloween' and 'Childs Play' and drew horrific images just weeks before killing little James.

To that end, I was wondering what goaters think about what is right and wrong with regards to bringing kids up.....seriously.

 

[GEM]

The key phrase in your post is "free access to" substitute "supervised" and you pretty much have the tools to bring up kids responsibly.

 

[GEM]

I voted OK with supervision as quite often movies/games get over censored. Supervision gives you the right to decide what is suitable and what isn't. Example COD 3 several of the scenarios are OK for kids, no excessive blood or swearing, under supervision why not let them play?

 

[ResidentEvil]

It all depends what you are talking about and what age the children are.

For example I feel it is ok to let my 10 year old watch 12 films and my 12yr old to play games such as COD which are rated around 15/16 for the PS2.

I won't let my kids watch 15 rated films as I feel the films contain more older content than the games do.

A lot depends on how you as parents act - both have heard and know swear words but as they are not used in our house (at least not around them) they know that they shouldn't use them.

I don't think it is a simple case of what they watch / play or not watch / play - it is how you set guidelines and rules for everything they do in life.
Its fairly simple, I knew if I got caught doing something (I am not talking something henious) when I was young I would get in trouble, did it stop me from doing it? Not always! But I knew I was breaking rules!

Overall I don't think they did what they did purely based on what they watched and it probably was their total upbringing or no upbringing at fault!

 

[Scaley brat]

The key phrase in your post is "free access to" substitute "supervised" and you pretty much have the tools to bring up kids responsibly.

You started on the gin early old fella ? DT_Xtremez_31:

Personally I believe all kids are individuals. Some are hard working while others are wasters and some are Angels while others are demons. Thompson and Venables did what they did because they could. They didn't for one second think about the consequences of their actions. I believe at the time they reported that both barstuds only started to cry when they realised THEY would get into trouble. The world and his dog portrayed these two little cnuts as victims, but the only real victim was little Jamie.
I would happily see them clapped in irons for the rest of their days, fed nothing but bread and water then dragged around schools to show kids that no matter how you're brought up, you and ONLY you are responsible for your own actions.

Unfortunately in this shabby little nation of ours, people like shabby chakrabatty are only to quick to jump to the defence of cnuts like these. DT_Xtremez_06:

 

[Joe_90]

To take this argument forward a little you have to remember that these were 10 year old children. The reason they didn't start crying when they killed Jamie could purely be because they didn't fully understand death. Imagine a similar thing happened now, I'm a bit of a geek and I play the new COD game and I regularly play against children online. This game has realistic blood spatter when you kill someone but they immediately come back to life somewhere else, if you haven't brought kids up properly they can get confused between what happens in the game and what happens in real life. I'm not saying that they don't understand when something dies it doesn't come back but if they spend 40 hours a week killing things online without any comeback in an impressionable mind it is easy to mix reality with the fantasy.
Move back to a simpler time almost 20 years ago and people could die in films and be alive again for the next one. With proper parental supervision this isn't a problem but would someone who cared about proper parenting skills actually let a 10 year old watch an 18 rated horror film? So it comes back to the adults letting the children down but the children paying the price IMO.

 

[R_Squared]

Joe, I'm sorry but that is a pile of old cobblers.

Kids are very well aware of the difference between real life and fiction and also have a very developed sense of right and wrong, fair and unfair.

Those two rancid pieces of filth knew EXACTLY what they were doing. They just got away with it.

The public will NEVER forgive them until they are punished, properly.

 

[Dragoon]

As mentioned in a previous post, it's about how impressionable a person is, and not always down to a poor upbringing that can cause these issues.

It always winds me up when people start looking to movies/games/music as the reason why people can do these things, the point is, these nasty pieces of work may have been playing a game or some such not long before they carried out the crime, but thats not to say they only did it because "they saw it in a game".

You have to be very impressionable to use this as justification, and it could just as easily be something you see in a street, a magazine or a conversation that could influence you into going off and killing someone.

My parents wouldnt let me see films that were rated above my age, but I still snuck off and watched some, and as I knew these were just movies, it didnt leave me feeling I could go off and do the nasty things I may have saw portrayed in them.

If it wasnt poor Jamie that they got their twisted mitts on, you can put money on the fact that they would have done something just as bad to somebody else at a later date, as those two sickos were always impressionable and evil enough to carry something out.

 

[Joe_90]

You are right to say that games and movies aren't what twists them but it is the whole parenting style, or lack of it, of giving them access to these things encompasses that creates these horrible people. For those of you who are saying things like children have a well developed sense of right and wrong are you comparing them to your own children and those of your friends? All that means is that you are a success as a parent, grandparent, uncle, aunt etc.
The truth is that two horrible 10 year old children were created, they weren't born evil no-one is and the real question now is why after 8 years inside being rehabilitated and then another 9 years with that rehabilitation supposedly continuing we get stories of one of them reoffending? The system failed somewhere and it could have been as simple as putting them into the wrong kind of institution when they were jailed or social workers not being hard enough, or being too hard when they were trying to help them.
I have no idea how justice should have been carried out with these two boys and I do believe prisons should be a place of punishment as well as rehabilitation, no matter how old you are, as this helps you understand there are consequences, but justice is a different thing from revenge and that is what people in the UK want from these two, even today nearly twenty years on.

 

[RAF Bird]

My old and very wise great Aunt always says that children are born with a clean slate and if they are good it is because we have made them good and if they are bad it is because we have made them bad. I have to say I agree with her logic and these boys were born into bad homes and turned into the people they are through the failings of firstly their parents and secondly the system after the event.

I still however believe that these 2 evil creatures should never ever be allowed to walk the streets ever again. They should have faced the death penalty for the hineous crimes that they committed.

 

[Joe_90]

They were ten, take a look at any ten year old in the street this week and imagine being the one to put a noose around their neck, even America don't execute pre-pubescents.

 

[grumpyoldb]

My old and very wise great Aunt always says that children are born with a clean slate and if they are good it is because we have made them good and if they are bad it is because we have made them bad. I have to say I agree with her logic and these boys were born into bad homes and turned into the people they are through the failings of firstly their parents and secondly the system after the event.

I still however believe that these 2 evil creatures should never ever be allowed to walk the streets ever again. They should have faced the death penalty for the hineous crimes that they committed.

What about the parents who allegedly raised them? Should they not bear some responsibilty for the actions of their offspring?

 

[RAF Bird]

They were ten, take a look at any ten year old in the street this week and imagine being the one to put a noose around their neck, even America don't execute pre-pubescents.

Your very right mate and 5 years ago I would probably have agreed with you... but now I am a mother of a 4 year old lovely little boy and if any 10 old did to my son what they did to poor Jamie Bulger I would happily do time if that person ever walked the street again. Maybe I am wrong but it is genuinely how I feel.

 

[Joe_90]

which is why justice is meted out by dispassionate professionals (not always correctly in my opinion) and not by those affected by the crime.

 

[GEM]

We very nearly had another Bulger type killing in S Yorkshire and the judiciery have all but let the little bast@rds get away with it.

We learn nothing, we have cranes, we have ropes and we have football stadiums

Job Done

 

[R_Squared]

I personally would have a problem with executing a 10 year old. Which is why I would wait until they were 18 then string the fcukers up.

Justice is just revenge mollified to make you feel better about yourself.

If you wanted to rehabilitate them, prison is the wrong place. That place is about punishment or it should be. Re-habilitate them after they have been punished.

Personally I believe there are people who aren't worth rehabilitating and these 2 fitted that criteria perfectly.

 

[yorkieterrier]

I have a ten year old, and i let her watch 12 rated films, but only when i am there watching with her.

She still gets confused when people die in films and on tv - she has to check with me that they havent died 'in real life'.

she has been reading in the papers about this and cant understand how anyone her age could do something like that, and says that the police havent done a good job of keeping them in prison (she doesnt understand its not the police that get to choose)

 

[Oberon305]

My old and very wise great Aunt always says that children are born with a clean slate and if they are good it is because we have made them good and if they are bad it is because we have made them bad. I have to say I agree with her logic and these boys were born into bad homes and turned into the people they are through the failings of firstly their parents and secondly the system after the event.

I still however believe that these 2 evil creatures should never ever be allowed to walk the streets ever again. They should have faced the death penalty for the hineous crimes that they committed.

I think that this sums up exacty how I feel about it all actually. Joe 90 had some valid points too. But whilst I think they will probably never change their ways, will always be a liability and should be locked-up forever, I can't help but think if they had had a better upbringing from parents who gave a **** about their welfare/morals etc, it might not have happened.

My boy is 10. If I thought he had hit someone at school, or even swore at someone, he'd be grounded for a week (depending on circumstances of course).

Call me a harsh parent, but we are responsible for them until they are adults.

We had one of my son's friends over the Xmas hols, and he walked in on us watching 'Taken' with Liam Neeson.......he said 'cool film'. We turned it off straght away and said, don't be silly, you don't know this film. He basiclally told us the story, including details and said that he had watched it with his dad.

Now I'm sure most of you have seen it, it's a good film, but NOT suitable for a 10 year old, even under supervision. I was disgusted.

What got me was that his dad is a 'sensible' FS Loady, not some work-dodging, dole-scrounging scummer. What was he thinking??? DT_Xtremez_25:

 

[Scaley brat]

Joe, I'm sorry but that is a pile of old cobblers.

Kids are very well aware of the difference between real life and fiction and also have a very developed sense of right and wrong, fair and unfair.

Those two rancid pieces of filth knew EXACTLY what they were doing. They just got away with it.

The public will NEVER forgive them until they are punished, properly.

Spot on mate, except the bit in red. The public will never forgive them fullstop.

if any 10 old did to my son what they did to poor Jamie Bulger I would happily do time if that person ever walked the street again. Maybe I am wrong but it is genuinely how I feel.

Quite right to pet and I don't think you'd have much trouble getting a host of alibis either. If anyone did that to SBjnr I would bide my time but they would pay MY price.

 

[Ex-Bay]

They were only 10 years old. Of course it was an evil crime, but at ten, I doubt if the consequences would have been uppermost in their young minds.

I can sympathise with RAFBird and others who'd execute this evil pair, but, whilst I understand the sentiments, revenge is NOT the answer for them.

From what the papers have reported, it looks as if any attempt at "re-education" has failed in this one case. Perhaps he really has got the 'evil' gene, so chuck 'im in the chokey and throw away the key for a LONG time. You never know, perhaps some proud father, doing time, would alter his views of the matter.