Shiney trade training

[PTR Hoar]

So does this mean the lossie psf is only doing mornings for the foreseable future? I know it's getting way off topic but our section is currently at 57% manning (as shown by those lovely KPI's the zob's have a hardon for)and that's not including ANY diversions, yet instead of us telling the squadrons we can't fix the kit we have been told that we have to work LONGER days to satisfy demands.....you can see why some of us aren't impressed!

Again sorry for going off topic!

 

[mild mannered janitor]

I think you will find it was only the first light that was off as its buggered. Try again in the morning however, don't bother me after 12 as I need to catch up on my sleep. Can't talk about every PSF but we are down to 4 guys to look after the station at Lossie 4 of the 8 are OOA (not many sections can boast of a 50% manning loss to OOA alone) never mind the sick and posted/gapped. The station also have loads of guys going OOA so we are making them a priority as they need all our help so things like leave, subs pay and other queries are going on the back burner. We are not closed for training we are closed for "walk ins" without an appt so we can get the lads and lasses prepped for OOA. If you require assistance then simple, make an appt (As long as its not something like "Do I really need to do these preps as I am only going away for 4 months" SAC(T) yesterday going to Afghan) and don't just turn up.

i think you will find as im not a retard when i walk into a dark room and there is no-one in it it means the lights are off and it is devoid of people!!!. every other section copes with OOA commitment's why cant you lot ?

 

[muttywhitedog]

at Lossie 4 of the 8 are OOA (not many sections can boast of a 50% manning loss to OOA alone)

I may be wrong, but shouldnt your Chf Clk be liaising with ACOS Manning over the OOAs with so that you are not at such a low level? I'm sure there is a mechanism in place so that only 1 or 2 of your 8 should be away at once.

And if thats not the case, then try Unit Assistance.

 

[KingGuin]

I may be wrong, but shouldnt your Chf Clk be liaising with ACOS Manning over the OOAs with so that you are not at such a low level? I'm sure there is a mechanism in place so that only 1 or 2 of your 8 should be away at once.

And if thats not the case, then try Unit Assistance.

Mutty 50% is a luxury - seriously. Just before I left PSF to move to my current job we had a manning level of 40% for over 3 months. We tried the ACOS thang, our bid for Unit Assistance was laughed out of court (FMDL) so we cracked on. In my current section my bid for Unit Assistance was rejected and resulted in a couple of TG1s finest being seconded to me. Additionally I have 2 JOs holding and fortunately one of them can make tea! Its a shrinking Air Force bud and its not just us affected.

 

[Geordie4Ever]

Mutty 50% is a luxury - seriously. Just before I left PSF to move to my current job we had a manning level of 40% for over 3 months. We tried the ACOS thang, our bid for Unit Assistance was laughed out of court (FMDL) so we cracked on. In my current section my bid for Unit Assistance was rejected and resulted in a couple of TG1s finest being seconded to me. Additionally I have 2 JOs holding and fortunately one of them can make tea! Its a shrinking Air Force bud and its not just us affected.

Its funny how many people say that when they go down the unit assistance route it gets laughed out of court. I believe this to be the case here too. We have even tried borrowing locally with no joy. To be fair they have tried and have been knocked back every time. To the Mild Mannered Janny - As for PSF being empty I doubt that very much as I am there for a start, I may have been around the corner having lunch. If you come on in and if you have a genuine issue I for one will help you out. As I said earlier, if your issue is a lame one or a subject way down the priority order then you can expect to be told to come back in the morning. We are "Cracking on" but we are prioritising nothing new or wrong in that. You just seem to get a hard on with us TG17's for some reason. Maybe because you are on "Clarky Pay"?

 

[Bucc Boy]

Its funny how many people say that when they go down the unit assistance route it gets laughed out of court. I believe this to be the case here too. We have even tried borrowing locally with no joy. To be fair they have tried and have been knocked back every time. To the Mild Mannered Janny - As for PSF being empty I doubt that very much as I am there for a start, I may have been around the corner having lunch. If you come on in and if you have a genuine issue I for one will help you out. As I said earlier, if your issue is a lame one or a subject way down the priority order then you can expect to be told to come back in the morning. We are "Cracking on" but we are prioritising nothing new or wrong in that. You just seem to get a hard on with us TG17's for some reason. Maybe because you are on "Clarky Pay"?

Wouldn't you be serving your clients better by airing that statement on your Stations local intranet site instead of e-goat? The message might actually reach those that matter then.

I find the irony of an old retired ex 12 & 617 Squadron DF sitting behind his computer in Wales (me), knowing more about Lossies PSF opening times than one of your serving members on station..............laughable!!

 

[Geordie4Ever]

Wouldn't you be serving your clients better by airing that statement on your Stations local intranet site instead of e-goat? The message might actually reach those that matter then.

I find the irony of an old retired ex 12 & 617 Squadron DF sitting behind his computer in Wales (me), knowing more about Lossies PSF opening times than one of your serving members on station..............laughable!!

As I have only been there 1 week I will put that forward but I believe it is on the net already. I know for a fact that an e-mail has been sent out to respective bosses. If this is not passed down the chain then......... well that's another issue. Anyway this has turned into something that maybe doesn't belong on this thread/area.

 

[mild mannered janitor]

To the Mild Mannered Janny - As for PSF being empty I doubt that very much as I am there for a start, I may have been around the corner having lunch.

as i said before ALL the lights were off and it was four in the afternoon, the place was empty apart from from the community support officer and me !! not a clark in sight DT_Xtremez_42:

am i not saying this right or do you just not understand ??

 

[rwp1975]

I really want to say to the pilot on a see off "Sorry Sir I've lost your chopper, you'll have to go and get another one" see if what he says to that?

 

[Geordie4Ever]

as i said before ALL the lights were off and it was four in the afternoon, the place was empty apart from from the community support officer and me !! not a clark in sight DT_Xtremez_42:

am i not saying this right or do you just not understand ??

Ok keep your hair on, sounds as though it was weds afternoon if that is the case then that is our BSW compulsory fitness afternoon. Not our doing speak to Harry Staish if you are not happy about that. If it was any other day then I suggest a trip to the med centre to get your eyes sorted.

 

[mild mannered janitor]

Ok keep your hair on, sounds as though it was weds afternoon if that is the case then that is our BSW compulsory fitness afternoon. Not our doing speak to Harry Staish if you are not happy about that. If it was any other day then I suggest a trip to the med centre to get your eyes sorted.

best i book another eye test then :raf::raf: fcuk i dindt realise my eyes were getting that bad DT_Xtremez_42:

 

[raflad67]

As a TG17 for quite some years I do wonder why oh why a PSF has to close at all.

So what if you are 50% manned? Close and no-one gets service, open and the wait may be longer but at least individuals would get seen. We have to ensure we are there for the guys and gals who need info not closed and then they get pi$$ed off etc etc and we end up where we are today.

Of course less people makes it more difficult and workloads increase, but to use the old 'back in my day' - I used to work until the work was done. Crack the whip and get it sorted Chf Clks! Why close for sports afternoons - what the hell is more important? If the mandatory sessions are not getting done do them at 0700hrs/1700hrs or split your workforce, a bit of hard work - you will then get recognition from most people..

To sum up, even if you went to a PSF and it was open with only one or two people in there it would be much better than going and finding it closed for 'staff training' or whatever other excuse they seem to find!

At least you would be making the effort!

 

[busby1971]

Off topic

Off topic

This is now very off topic, however, I'm a stong beleiver of closing PSFs if required and it provides the staff a more efficient working environment. Most PSFs are open for emergencies at all times even if they are closed for normal enquiries, and even if the odd customer who pops his head around and asks nicely will normally get sorted.

Opening hours for PSFs are widely advertised, and remember this is counter opening hours not working hours, I'm sure that an individual who is able to pass the test and go on to become a techie knows how to read a watch and plan his day appropriately so a lack of planning on his part is not a reason to open PSFs from dawn til dusk. I was on a Sqn that tried that and it just wasn't worth the effort

To relate this to a techie environment imagine having your tool kit out and being halfway through a job, when a someone asks you to do something completely different that takes them away for 5 to 10 (or more) mins, now imagine that happening every half an hour or so and think how long it will take you to complete your oringal task and what are the chances of you making a mistake.

At the end of the day techies like to moan and if it wasn't the opening hours it would be something else, just leave them to it.

 

[muttywhitedog]

Close and no-one gets service, open and the wait may be longer but at least individuals would get seen.

Nail hit well and truly on head. Nothing wrong with staggering the day. Its not compulsary for everyone to start at 0800 and finish at 1700 - probably 30% of every unit works nights but get little, if any admin support. Why not have a 10-6 shift?

Crack the whip and get it sorted Chf Clks! Why close for sports afternoons - what the hell is more important? If the mandatory sessions are not getting done do them at 0700hrs/1700hrs or split your workforce, a bit of hard work - you will then get recognition from most people..

Sorry, disagree here. If a directive has been issued from on high that there will be 2 mandatory PT sessions in work time, why the fcuk should me or my staff forego that and be expected to do it in our own time (if we have any). On the other hand, I trust that if you have staff and deny them their compulsary PT, you will also tell the PEdO or OC Unit to ram it when they try and MAA them for not passing their FT....

 

[Bucc Boy]

Why close for sports afternoons - what the hell is more important? If the mandatory sessions are not getting done do them at 0700hrs/1700hrs or split your workforce, a bit of hard work - you will then get recognition from most people..

To relate this to a techie environment imagine having your tool kit out and being halfway through a job, when a someone asks you to do something completely different that takes them away for 5 to 10 (or more) mins, now imagine that happening every half an hour or so and think how long it will take you to complete your oringal task and what are the chances of you making a mistake.

Firstly raflad67, are you sure you are TG17 because that’s a very respectable Techie attitude you're showing there. A very can do attitude, that is refreshing to see.

Secondly busby1971, welcome to the pressures of higher pay band entitlement. The attitude you have displayed here is most certainly not 'can do', more 'fcuk you'. The techie scenario you described is not too unlike real life for most techies, but if that is what is required so that everything gets done with reduced manning...........then that's will happen.

It is your professionalism that will prevent you from making mistakes, not a spineless fear of attempting to serve your clients to the best of your ability! I am surprised busby1971, I usually find your attitudes and opinions credible and sound.

 

[stereolab]

Out of Hours

Out of Hours

I recall making the suggestion to WO Accts in the early 70's that we should have someone man the office between 1700 -2359 to give the night shift squadron staff open access to the same level of service that day staff received. He shot down the suggestion immediately. I was Cashier at ISK and found that the Cashier did not open after 1400hrs, in my first week I had spare time and called round the squadrons to get their guys to come and collect their travel claims, OC Accounts reamed me out, she was a civvy right enough, who did not belive in customer assistance. Sometimes many TG17 personnel want to assist, but are faced with intransigent superiors, and by that I mean superior in rank only.

 

[busby1971]

Secondly busby1971, welcome to the pressures of higher pay band entitlement. The attitude you have displayed here is most certainly not 'can do', more 'fcuk you'. The techie scenario you described is not too unlike real life for most techies, but if that is what is required so that everything gets done with reduced manning...........then that's will happen.

It is your professionalism that will prevent you from making mistakes, not a spineless fear of attempting to serve your clients to the best of your ability! I am surprised busby1971, I usually find your attitudes and opinions credible and sound.

Thanks for your previous support, it is because of my professionalism the I have never turned anyone away who has a genuine reason to be seen however urgent the problem, it is my professionalism that has seen me working long hours when required to get the job done, both here and on ops. It is my professionalism that ensures that I can cope with multi-tasking and I try my hardest not to er.

However, the RAF as an organisation is demanding more and more from it's staff without providing the assests, renumeration nor promotion. Our can do attitude, which I have always been a firm believer in, has been abused for years and to be honest the RAF has relied upon yours and my goodwill to the point of exhaustion.

Within the PFA the staffing levels have gone down yet workload has gone up, this is then compounded by increased levels of OOA and undermanning (which I know affects all trades) things need to be prioritised otherwise important tasks will not be carried out and this can be the only justification for closing the counter. A little understanding from the work force would be appreciated.

I think we would all be better off trying to get a fairer system for all rather than moaning about perceived impartialities between trades.

 

[Realist78]

Thanks for your previous support, it is because of my professionalism the I have never turned anyone away who has a genuine reason to be seen however urgent the problem, it is my professionalism that has seen me working long hours when required to get the job done, both here and on ops. It is my professionalism that ensures that I can cope with multi-tasking and I try my hardest not to er.

However, the RAF as an organisation is demanding more and more from it's staff without providing the assests, renumeration nor promotion. Our can do attitude, which I have always been a firm believer in, has been abused for years and to be honest the RAF has relied upon yours and my goodwill to the point of exhaustion.

Within the PFA the staffing levels have gone down yet workload has gone up, this is then compounded by increased levels of OOA and undermanning (which I know affects all trades) things need to be prioritised otherwise important tasks will not be carried out and this can be the only justification for closing the counter. A little understanding from the work force would be appreciated.

I think we would all be better off trying to get a fairer system for all rather than moaning about perceived impartialities between trades.

That, IMO is probably the best statement on this subject for some time.

 

[raflad67]

Sorry, disagree here. If a directive has been issued from on high that there will be 2 mandatory PT sessions in work time, why the fcuk should me or my staff forego that and be expected to do it in our own time (if we have any). On the other hand, I trust that if you have staff and deny them their compulsary PT, you will also tell the PEdO or OC Unit to ram it when they try and MAA them for not passing their FT....

Fair one but do all the clerks have to go at the same time thereby necessitating a closure? It's called management FFS.

I for one would ensure my PSF is always open and as has been said, why the strict 8-5 anyway?

Anyway, the only directive is to increase activity levels and it has been left to individual Harry Staish how much of it can be undertook during 'normal' working hours and how much of it should be supervised.

Also IMHO having clerks dotted around the unit doesn't help either - reducing the 'pool'. I guess I am just old fashioned here though - I much preferred a Central PSF - easier to control the manning levels and cover, and whilst I understand they can still be utilised from wherever they are, I just found it easier to manage. Mandatory PT would be much easier to sort out and keep your office open doing what you are supposed to be doing - providing a service!

However, as they say, opinions are like ar$e holes - everyone has one and that's mine (opinion not a-hole!!!)

cup of corrrfeee

 

[Geordie4Ever]

Also IMHO having clerks dotted around the unit doesn't help either - reducing the 'pool'. I guess I am just old fashioned here though - I much preferred a Central PSF


This is a good idea if the clerks on the squadrons are utilised better. With the advent of JPA ALL Sqns should be able to arrive and clear its own personnel hence Sqn's taking more responsibility for their own guys and gals. They could still rely on PSF for centralisation of things like OOA notifications but then the Sqns could quite easily manage their own preps and so forth.

Well this is my opinion anyway. I must say on the PSF closed issue, urgent, operational and compassionate cases are obviously still dealt as you would expect we (PSF) are not closed we are just not accepting walk-in queries of a non urgent, compassionate or operational nature and we have a need for prioritisation. We are still in the office working.

I will concede to the mild mannered janitor about our PSF being unmanned because I can't remember it ever being unmanned apart from Weds afternoon (1530) and I really can't be arsed arguing anymore.