Firemans industrial action

[he_who_dares_rodney]

Of course it's always worth remembering
80p in every pound The Labour Party recieves comes from the unions

Labour are in Goverment and are the country is skint
So they cut back money from Central Goverment to Local Goverment (County and Town Councils)
Local Goverment needs to find ways to save money
They cut back on Fire stations and crews

Firemen pay the FBU who send some to The Labour Party
The very people who are taking the money away from your employers

And on and on and on

 

[chiprafp]

Perhaps thats the point?
You're annoyed that I have the ability to do something about the issue whereas you don't? I'm not having a go, just pointing this out.

I for one am not annoyed that we dont have the ability to strike as I would be even more disgusted if the safety and security of this country could be used to as blackmail for higher wages etc.

There is a reason its illegal for the armed forces and the police to strike and in my opinion ALL of the Emergency services should fall into line under that law. The only benefit from the fire service continually pulling this stunt will be that occuring sooner rather than later.

 

[firestorm]

Of course it's always worth remembering

Firemen pay the FBU who send some to The Labour Party
The very people who are taking the money away from your employers

And on and on and on

No we don't. We pay nothing to the Labour party.
This isn't about pay either, its about stopping being worse off, amongst other things.

 

[steve_k243]

Of course it's always worth remembering
80p in every pound The Labour Party recieves comes from the unions

Labour are in Goverment and are the country is skint
So they cut back money from Central Goverment to Local Goverment (County and Town Councils)
Local Goverment needs to find ways to save money
They cut back on Fire stations and crews

Firemen pay the FBU who send some to The Labour Party
The very people who are taking the money away from your employers

And on and on and on

I think you will find that most unions, certainly mine only take voluntary contributions for Liebour. I am one of it seems a minority who do not give to Browns clowns. Unfortunately my union is affiliated with Liebour, the FBU isn't. I believe the only drawback? is by not being affiliated you lose your seats at the labour conference, not that they would listen anyway.

 

[he_who_dares_rodney]

My mistake guys

The drivers at my work are part of Woodleys lot and I believe they contribute

I was thrown out of the union after being promoted to the office

The union leader called me a fukcing Judas so sorry if I've lost all my respect for them but I do believe in good working conditions for the lads

 

[burglar]

Have we now? Ask why some have second jobs (is it illegal to have a second job?) after working a 48 hour shift, the longest in the public service.
4 days off? Many of us don't get 4 days off any more, I'm fortunate to still have that shift, though when you say 4 days off remember that I've already worked 9 hours of my first day off.
Stuck in a time warp, you or me? We've not been called firemen for decades. The women firefighters don't like it!

Remember, this thread isn't fight club.

I've read this thread with interest having spent 14 years as a cop before resigning and having worked a couple of shifts on the last Op Fresco fiasco. You seem to be making a big point of the fact that on your first rest day you are losing 9 hours because you have worked from presumably midnight to 0900. You are not the only ones that that happens to!! Cops on nights finish at 0700 if they are lucky and are not stiffed with unforeseen overtime (officially their rest days after nights do not start until 0800) and have been driving around on patrol for the vast majority of the shift and not dossing in a nice comfy station waiting for jobs to come in. I currently work in the security industry doing 12 hour shifts days and nights again finishing at 0700, ambulance crews are the same after nights, so it is not just the Water Fairies who are hard done to it is all true night shift workers!
You say a 48 hour working week is the longest in the public sector--- get real. The first shift pattern I worked in the old bill saw me doing a 63 hour week (7 days) of nights with 6 days off after (this was soon stopped when the bosses realised how much time off we were getting), this was replaced with 7 9 hour nights (63 hour week) with 2 days off after which was loads better (not!!) and that was only part of the pattern. My last shift pattern was 2 earlies, 2 lates and 2 nights equalling 58 hours with 4 off unless you were required for training or a football match/protest, not forgetting court appearances which always seemed to be on rest days and at short notice!
Compared to others there doesn't appear to be a deal to whine about, but hey we know the water fairies are special because they keep telling us so!!
Don't get me started on your ability and right to strike--- that's just not funny!!

 

[RAF Bird]

You work for an organisation that gives you no voice. I don't.
I know what I'd prefer.
So someone who's worked for years should just tug their forlock on shuffle off?

Thing is mate even if I did have the ability to strike I wouldn't, not when you are going to be putting peoples lives in danger and to be honest your using bullcrap excuses to back it up!! Childcare problems is a load of tosh. Pay for a childminder! There are hundreds of them out there and in fact you may well give someone a few hours much needed work!. We all chose our jobs and unfortunately over time things evolve. Practices change, kit is upgraded, structures change, pay gets increased and shifts change. You might not like it but I for one feel in this day and age that you should be thankful to have a job. There are lots of people who would love to do your job right now, so if it doesn't suit you then move on and offer them a position.

So what when your on your night shift you might get woken up by an alarm then have to go and put out a fire..... hell you chose to be a fire person!! Thats what they do, it's in the job description!

What would you do if you went into work tomorrow to be told that there will no longer be unions ergo no more striking and you WILL also be changing your shifts to 12/12?? Would you quit?? If the answer is no then I guess you should hush now and get on with the job you are paid to do. DT_Xtremez_32:

 

[Triple SA]

You might not like it but I for one feel in this day and age that you should be thankful to have a job. There are lots of people who would love to do your job right now, so if it doesn't suit you then move on and offer them a position. DT_Xtremez_32:

Without the collective bargaining power of Unions, Bosses will drive down pay and enforce poor working conditions on the basis that somebody out there will do the job for less pay, especially in times of economic recession/depression.

I can highly recommend reading 'The Ragged Trousered Philanthropist' by Robert Tressell for an excellent illustration of the need for 'workers' to unite. It's as relevant now as when it was written 100 years ago.

Comrade TSA

 

[chiprafp]

Don't get me started on your ability and right to strike--- that's just not funny!!

Hear Hear!

 

[BillyBunter]

I funking hate the Fireman , i never forgived them for there last strike that nearly screwed up the war. Selfish wan***

Screw them all , cnuts

Rant over

 

[duffman]

They will sack the entire operational workforce and only employ the ones who want to come back on the new contracts with the new conditions of service.

If everyone agreed to the contract then what? They wouldn't save any money.

The 9/15 shift has, until the last national strike, been worked throughout the UK.
We now work varying shift patterns depending on were in the country you work.

So in a lot of places the shift system that you want to keep, and are willing to strike over, amongst other things, has already gone. What are the outcomes in areas that have changed away from 9/15 the last strike was 2003 so they must have been working it for quite a while. Have there been more fires, and more deaths in those areas?

 

[Dave-exfairy]

They will sack the entire operational workforce and only employ the ones who want to come back on the new contracts with the new conditions of service.

The 9/15 shift came about after the '77 strike and the introduction of the 4th watch. Prior to then firemen (as they were then) worked a 72 hour week.
The 9/15 shift has, until the last national strike, been worked throughout the UK.
We now work varying shift patterns depending on were in the country you work.

So do all my colleagues throughout the Police Service, Norfolk Constabulary have just gone from 2 days, 2 nights (12 hour shifts) and 4 days off to varying shifts depending upon "Intelligence led Policing", namely computer predicted models dependant upon data entered from the last few years and predicting when officers will be needed most.

No. Its about a change in work practice that adversely affects the financial and family lives for no benefit whatsoever to the public.
Wouldn't it be nice to have a "restful" nights sleep at work? I tell you what. I'll sit next to your bed tonight and turn your lights on and sound a siren, then I'd like you to get up, dressed and into your car within 2 minutes, race across town and then work your nuts off in punishing conditions. I'll may do this several times tonight, I may not do it at all.
Sleep well.
At least you get to sleep on a night duty, many a time i've been looking forward to booking off at say 6 am, only to have to deal with a sudden death or fatal RTC and having to stay on for a few extra hours, sometimes with no overtime.

Firestorm, you and your colleagues need to see that changes are sometimes necessary, the Police Service/Force gets change forced upon it and we have no recourse to strike action, I very much doubt my colleagues and I would take strike action anyway, in fact there's only one recent course of events where we would take action and that was the ex HS going back on her word about pay.

 

[firestorm]

Dave, we've seen massive changes in the service. A lot of these changes don't actually deliver any benefit to the public, unless you see your local station closed as a benefit.
Shifts have changed all over the country, sleeping shifts are in many places a thing of the past, some of the shifts are just bizarre.

I also wasn't complaining about working 9 hours of my first day off, just pointing out the fact that its not actually 4 days off as presumed.

The firefighters in S.Yorks are standing up to prevent their situation worsening, trying to protect their conditions of service from further erosion and yet again finding out the cost of the so called modernisation agenda is one they have to feel in there pay packets and family lives.

Unfortunately the "scaremongering" the FBU was accused of in the '03 strike of station closures, removal of resources and redundancies has become a reality.
The bean counters, politicians and chief officers have done ever so well though, seeing huge increases in their pay and conditions.

The 224 shift pattern provides constant cover for the communities it serves. Call a fire engine and you'll get one, usually very quickly, though with the modernisation agenda this now is not always the case.
Can the same be said of the overstretched old bill or the paper thin big white taxi service?

 

[230Tiger]

I funking hate the Fireman , i never forgived them for there last strike that nearly screwed up the war. Selfish wan***

Screw them all , cnuts

Rant over

Lets hope you never need the services of those "wan**** & cnuts". Maybe you could tell them your feelings as they are trying to cut you out of your car.

As to whoever said "it's all be privatised soon", you'd better pray this never happens again. Yes, in the very early days firecrews were paid by insurance companies. If they turned up at your buring house and you didn't have an insurance plaque above your door they would walk away and let you burn to death!!

 

[firestorm]

If everyone agreed to the contract then what? They wouldn't save any money.
Then they'd all be employed on a contract with worse conditions, shifts would change, they'd incur additional childcare costs and then variable crewing could commence. Stations could be closed or downgraded as the brigade sees fit.



So in a lot of places the shift system that you want to keep, and are willing to strike over, amongst other things, has already gone. What are the outcomes in areas that have changed away from 9/15 the last strike was 2003 so they must have been working it for quite a while. Have there been more fires, and more deaths in those areas?

Generally, fire deaths to the public are falling. This is because of the increased work put in by firefighters doing CFS work (community fire safety). He have to spend a set amount of time per month on CFS work (usually about 15%) this includes visiting peoples homes to give advice and fit free smoke alarms, organising community initiatives, visiting schools etc.
This has generally brought down the amount of deaths and injuries in domestic premises because of early warning with smoke alarms, making the severity of injuries less severe. Smoke alarms don't put fires out though!

I don't have stats to say what fires and deaths have happened. Fires are categorised by their type (insurance/injuries/fatalities etc) and have been on the rise, especially so in a recession. The new shift arrangements in place Manchester mean you could be told to turn up to a station you've never been to before, working with people who've never met before and then work as a coherent team.
What I can say is that deaths and injuries to firefighters is at its highest level for 30 years after the implementation of the cuts agenda.
13 firefighters were killed at fires between 2003 and 2007. However, for almost seven years prior to that period there were no firefighter deaths at fires.

 

[GD on Wheels]

If my sources are correct police deaths 2000/2009=136 duty related.
1980/89=30, 1990/99=18. I do stand to be corrected!

 

[firestorm]

Is that relevant?

 

[GD on Wheels]

Is that relevant?

If thats aimed at me, my point is the fireservice on occastions likes to make a big thing of the tragic deaths that occur. Where as the police get on with it. You are not the only ones to die on public service.

 

[duffman]

In fairness gd on wheels, I asked firestorm about the knock on effects of the new plans and fire deaths were the sort of thing that I was looking for.

 

[firestorm]

If thats aimed at me, my point is the fireservice on occastions likes to make a big thing of the tragic deaths that occur. Where as the police get on with it. You are not the only ones to die on public service.

Oh thats OK then. Of course the tragic death of Police officers never makes the news does it? Neither does the tragic death of service personnel at war?
Its the media that reports such events, not firefighters.
What would you say making a "big thing" was? A funeral with honours? I'd like to know. I can name occasions were a firefighter has been killed and it hardly warrants a mention in the press.