American criticism of the NHS

[Dave-exfairy]

Take me and my family, hubby in the RAF, i work damn hard part time as a carer for the elderly and have 2 young children. Decent enough most of you would say. But would that view change if i told you i am a smoker and over weight?? To hear some of you talk, you wouldnt **** on me if i was fire! It makes me sick.

I'm sure you do work hard and that both you and Mono are decent people, but at the end of the day it is YOUR choice to smoke, nobody holds a gun to your head and forces you to smoke, do they? You can give up, plenty of people I know have done.
The overweight bit is more difficult, those racing snakes who have naturally slim physiques are lucky and will have no idea about the hell some people go through to lose weight, it's not just about eating the right foods, everyone is different, but some people don't see that. And you can be thin and unfit and fat and fit.
I'm hardly a racing snake myself, indeed I am overweight, obese according to the stupid BMI chart, I do have a large frame and if I got down to the 12.5 stone the BMI chart recommends, i'd look like I spent a few years in Bergen-Belsen, the Doc says that 16 stone is a good fighting weight for me, so that's a more realistic target.

 

[Mrs_Monobrow]

I'm sure you do work hard and that both you and Mono are decent people, but at the end of the day it is YOUR choice to smoke, nobody holds a gun to your head and forces you to smoke, do they? You can give up, plenty of people I know have done.

No you are right, nobody forces me smoke but it IS an addiction and trust me i have lost count of the amount of times i have tried to quit and some people are stronger than others.

 

[wgaf]

No you are right, nobody forces me smoke but it IS an addiction and trust me i have lost count of the amount of times i have tried to quit and some people are stronger than others.

Dave is right, smoking is a personal addiction, show the necessary strength and hey presto! you give up. The fact that nicotine is an addictive substance means nowt other than that you shouldn't have started using it in the first place.
Why should we other non smoking people have to pay for sorting out your personally induced illness'?
It's only as addictive as you want it to be.

 

[R_Squared]

...Why should we other non smoking people have to pay for sorting out your personally induced illness'?...

Because the tax from tabs practically supports the NHS?

 

[firestorm]

The NHS may be run by a greedy bunch of charlatans but the team on the shop floor are the most dedicated and professional you will find anywhere.

Wise words. Can we draw parallels with all thats funded from the public purse? I'm afraid so.

 

[grim name]

just to stick my oar in.

mum has recently become ill, got an emergency appointment at the doctors. (same day, in 10 minutes time) then she got sent straigh tto the hospital where they had a bed on a ward already set up for her. just waiting on test results. but my overall impression of the NHS is that they are pretty darn good at their job but of course they could do with more funding even if only for a facelift. the hospital she was admitted to had the familiar hospital disinfectant smell but it just looked aged inside.

 

[Mrs_Monobrow]

Dave is right, smoking is a personal addiction, show the necessary strength and hey presto! you give up. The fact that nicotine is an addictive substance means nowt other than that you shouldn't have started using it in the first place.
Why should we other non smoking people have to pay for sorting out your personally induced illness'?

I pay into the system so does my husband, am i even less entitled than someone who pays nothing because its personally induced?? What about the guy who breaks his nose or leg playing rugby? Do you have the attitude there of 'fcuk him, he chose to play'?

 

[Dave-exfairy]

I pay into the system so does my husband, am i even less entitled than someone who pays nothing because its personally induced?? What about the guy who breaks his nose or leg playing rugby? Do you have the attitude there of 'fcuk him, he chose to play'?

That's called an accident. The dangers of smoking are well known, yet you still carry on.
I played rugby for over 15 years, in that time I only saw 2 broken legs in a game, hardly comparable.

 

[Mrs_Monobrow]

That's called an accident. The dangers of smoking are well known, yet you still carry on.
I played rugby for over 15 years, in that time I only saw 2 broken legs in a game, hardly comparable.

I wasnt trying to compare. I was simply stating that EVERYONE makes a choice that in some way COULD harm them. Trust me, i know all about the dangers of smoking and as i said before i have tried many times to quit and have failed each and every time. Why? i dont know. Not in the right frame of mind, weak, scared of failing again, its easier to carry on....pick one and they would all be true for me. But my life is not worth less than yours or anyone elses.

 

[Dave-exfairy]

I wasnt trying to compare. I was simply stating that EVERYONE makes a choice that in some way COULD harm them. Trust me, i know all about the dangers of smoking and as i said before i have tried many times to quit and have failed each and every time. Why? i dont know. Not in the right frame of mind, weak, scared of failing again, its easier to carry on....pick one and they would all be true for me. But my life is not worth less than yours or anyone elses.

Not saying that at all. No-one's is, except Ian Huntley, Ian Brady and Myra Hindley.

 

[Mad Pierre]

There is a massive difference between getting injured playing a sport and deliberately and repeatedly ingesting a poison with the knowledge that it will cause you and those around you harm. It's a tired old argument often promoted by smokers along with the other 'we fund the NHS' which is usually supplied with either no or heavily biased data.
Anyone under the age of 50 who smokes was well aware of the dangers when they started, thanks to Nick O Teen, Superman and a whole host of others.

I found the best way to not smoke over the last 45 years, was to not buy cigarettes, not put them in my mouth, not light them and not inhale the smoke.

So if smoking funds the NHS why don't we promote it for the good it's doing?

 

[Stax]

Depression and body dismorphic disorder, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_dysmorphic_disorder ARE real illnesses. Would you tell someone with a deformed foot or cleft palate to save up or live it? No..... didnt think so. The only difference is that a physical deformity can be seen but depression/BDD cant.

Fair enough, there are people out there that wont help themselves but there are some that work hard and do the best they can but still have problems or 'vices' they are still human beings and EVERYONE deserves to have the same treatment for an illness whatever their background. Take me and my family, hubby in the RAF, i work damn hard part time as a carer for the elderly and have 2 young children. Decent enough most of you would say. But would that view change if i told you i am a smoker and over weight?? To hear some of you talk, you wouldnt **** on me if i was fire! It makes me sick.

Mrs M, I have read many of your posts with interest over the years and have always respected your opinions. However before you rip into me let me inform you my wife has been an SRN/RGN for 25 years, geriatric mainly, and most of the old dears she looks after have spent all their time paying tax, paying NI etc and yet still have to pay for private care in their twighlight years. Real psychiatric problems are treatable and the cleft lip, deformed foot comment, had you read my previous posts, are also genuine problems. My problem is the scrounging tawts who play a game of "lets see how much I can get from the Social", and regardless of your opinion, getting bigger tit5 is bo11ocks, however if you had no bust at all, I can agree that that is a case for treatment, but I've seen women in the mob, with a proper shape, get them done 'cos it depresses them that they don't look like Feckin' Jordan! Oh and I smoked for 30 years and managed to give up in 2002, so don't give me the "I cant do it" bo11ocks, if nothing else think about your kids, you may not smoke around them but "if it's OK for Mum, it'll be OK for us" As to your weight issue, you and your husband contribute to society, you raise your kids and you have morals, therefore you should be able to get something back! All I say is lets use the NHS to treat illness, disease and injury.

 

[Stax]

How, by telling them to "man up"? Mate, psychiatric care isn't like that.

I've been told the vast majority of breast augmentation is post mastectomy treatment, I'm sure most reasonable people would support this.

Regarding dental, I agree. My lad wants braces, but dentally his teeth are fine. If he wants them done he can pay for them himself when he is older.

Man Up? HMM interesting concept, but no one would dare do that nowadays, you'd besued quicker than you can spit! Genuine illness, be it mental or physical should be treated and breast augmentation post mastectomy is a perfect example of how our money should be spent! Being married to a nurse, I am well aware of whats real and whats bo11ocks!

 

[metimmee]

Man Up? HMM interesting concept, but no one would dare do that nowadays, you'd besued quicker than you can spit! Genuine illness, be it mental or physical should be treated and breast augmentation post mastectomy is a perfect example of how our money should be spent! Being married to a nurse, I am well aware of whats real and whats bo11ocks!

That makes two of us

 

[Realist78]

Because the tax from tabs practically supports the NHS?

Figures from about 5 years ago were that smoking related diseases cost the NHS about 1Bn per year but approx 6Bn was received from tax on tobacco.

 

[R_Squared]

And smokers die earlier too, thus saving on pension costs too.
Surprised it isn't compulsory actually.

 

[Stevienics]

And smokers die earlier too, thus saving on pension costs too.
Surprised it isn't compulsory actually.

I listened to the Reith Lectures this year on the Beeb4 site, and the visiting professor detailed how in the Czech Rep. they were considering a similar ban on smoking to other EU Coutries. To cut along story short, Phillip Morris got wind and commissioned a study which found that the Country could benefit by some $1/4B a year by allowing their people to smoke and die, for exactly the reasons you propound. You can still smoke there - because market mimicking economics dictate the governmental policy.

Point is that on a continuum from full captialism to complete socialism, the health of your nation can be correlated very precisely to the governments chosen perch on that same continuum. I regret to add that Labour had the opportunity to sort things out early on, but Tony.....I guess he loved the view to the West a little too much.