FIA/McLaren Evidence

[Studley dangerfcuk]

Well the FIA might be pro Ferrari. But if Ron Dennis gave them the evidence who's to argue.

What I want to know is will Fernado Alonso keep his seat next year with what he has done.


Studley DT_Xtremez_32:

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=40662

 

[Yossarian]

Well the FIA might be pro Ferrari. But if Ron Dennis gave them the evidence who's to argue.

What I want to know is will Fernado Alonso keep his seat next year with what he has done.


Studley DT_Xtremez_32:

What on Earth are you blathering on about?

Who ever proved that the FIA are pro Ferrari?

Who ever said that Ron Dennis's evidence is beyond reproach?

And what has Fernando Alonso "done"?



Sounds like a very confused, very pro English (i.e. Hamilton) rant there.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Hamilton win.

But not by any unfair means.

 

[Studley dangerfcuk]

Sir Jackie Stewart stated that the FIA was pro Ferrari.

Read the link and find out what the evedence was.

Studley DT_Xtremez_34:

 

[Yossarian]

I did read the link. About as clear as frosted perspex.


Who gives a sh!t what Jackie Stuart thinks of the FIA?

Your link still does not prove:

1) That the FIA are Pro Ferrari. (It's just opinions)
2) That Ron Dennis's evidence is irrefutible. (Again it's opinions)
3) That Fernando Alonso has tried to cheat. (Once again, opinion)

Have you nothing better?




And I'm not even a motorsport fan. DT_Xtremez_40:

 

[Studley dangerfcuk]

Ok Yoss read this link.

http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?Type=James_Allen&PO_ID=40674


Studley

 

[wobbly]

Okay Yoss,

I have a mate who works for Williams F1 team as the IT bloke. A while back BAR Honda were fined for having illegal fuel tanks fitted. In the very early hours of the morning try and guess what arrived at the Ferrari garage, 3 brand new fuel cells for all three of their cars. Williams, Mclaren and a few other teams took photo's and asked for an independent enquiry to be raised as to why ferrari had replaced all their cars fuel cells overnight (As nobody replaces fuel cells at events unless they are punctured)

Guess what, it was thrown out by the FIA and nothing happened.

If your not a motorsport fan then why the feck do you have such a big head when it comes to discussions about a subject you have no knowledge of?

 

[T55]

As pro Hamilton and any British team as I am, F1 has for a long time been about stretching the interpretation of the rules as far as possible without getting caught. Ferrari have a history of stretching the rules as do most other teams and they are all into a bit of spying to gain advantage.

Even if the FIA are not pro Ferrari, I think it fair to say that Max Mosely is not the greatest fan of Ron Dennis and it would not be the first time that Max has been involved in ludicrous FIA decisions.

Lewis and Fernando, please give Ferrari another good drubbing this weekend, preferably in that order!

 

[I Look Like Kevin Costner]

while the FIA decision was based on some fairly damming evidence that could not been ignored, espionage in F1 is as common as muck. Ron Denis has to accept that members of his team were rouge in their actions.

However, reading the report of the WMSC makes me think on some things.

The Bridgestone tyre is a CONTROL tyre. Surely the inflation gas inside the tyre should also be a control substance. Ferrari would have had to talk to Bridgestone on the aspects of its use. As such are Bridgestone hold infomation on such from other teams a breech of their supply contract?

The underfloor of the Ferrari used in Melbounre was not used after its win due to its legality. Why did Ferrari not lose those points.

Ferrari are not gleemingly white in this affair either.

 

[MrMasher]

while the FIA decision was based on some fairly damming evidence that could not been ignored, espionage in F1 is as common as muck. Ron Denis has to accept that members of his team were rouge in their actions.

However, reading the report of the WMSC makes me think on some things.

The Bridgestone tyre is a CONTROL tyre. Surely the inflation gas inside the tyre should also be a control substance. Ferrari would have had to talk to Bridgestone on the aspects of its use. As such are Bridgestone hold infomation on such from other teams a breech of their supply contract?

The underfloor of the Ferrari used in Melbounre was not used after its win due to its legality. Why did Ferrari not lose those points.

Ferrari are not gleemingly white in this affair either.

I too have read the whole report from the FIA at www.fia.com

They have been caught. As the report states, De La Rosa as a test driver wouldnt have been able to test certain aspects off of his own back and therefore there must have been some sort of team involvement.

Alonso needs to thank Max Mosely for offering him a unpunishable way out. In my opinion the drivers should have lost their points as well. The McLaren team have clearly benefitted as a team and not just one side of the garage. Like the report says, you dont have to have Ferrari technology on the car, it could be designed with the Ferrari specs in mind.

Having said that, I am glad that they havent taken the points off the McLaren drivers. They have tainted this season enough as it is. I can imagine the comments if a Ferrari driver wins the drivers championship when the McLaren drivers lost their points.

Good to see the Ferrari's stick it to them during qualifying though.
Go Kimi!!!!!!!!!DT_Xtremez_28:

 

[Yossarian]

If your not a motorsport fan then why the feck do you have such a big head when it comes to discussions about a subject you have no knowledge of?

Not a big head, just my opinions. Alright, more forceful opinions than usual, but then a few beers usually increases someone's confidence in their beliefs! (And who hasn't done that before on these forums?)

I never said I have no knowledge by the way, just that I'm not a fan really. Although I agree I'm no expert. But show me a member of e-goat who is an F1 expert. I gave my opinions just as anyone else is entitled to.

For what it's worth I agree with what ILLKC said, espionage is common as muck in F1. They all get up to no good to an extent. Ron Dennis's trouble is that his team got caught, and unfortunately he's got to accept that.

 

[MrMasher]

May I interject a little here?
To quote your earlier comments Yossarian,

Who ever proved that the FIA are pro Ferrari?

Historically the FIA have had a slant towards Ferrari. I have watched F1 for the last 15 years I believe that the FIA never punished Ferrari to the level they should have when they had been found to be rule breaking. Especially during Schueys reign.

Who ever said that Ron Dennis's evidence is beyond reproach?

It wasnt Ron Dennis' evidence. Alonso approached him and threatened to release the emails. Ron Dennis said take it to the FIA, dont threaten me. More likely that Ron Dennis has done right. I think that the info was "compartmentalised" so Ron may not have known.

That Fernando Alonso has tried to cheat.

It's quite obvious that between Alonso, De La Rosa and their closer technical people there have been significant advantages over Ferrari in that they have knowledge about their competitors car. Thats not to say they used the same components etc but used the info to their advantage.. If you want to you can call it cheating. I dont dispute that the other teams all do this in one form or another, trouble is McLaren got caught. Unlucky!

I did read the link. About as clear as frosted perspex.

Go to the FIA's website and read the whole report before thundering in here and shouting at everyone? FIA. Theres a link on the right detailing the report. Click on printable version. It pages up better.

Nigel Stepney has alot to answer for. Not only has he put a knife into the back of his own team, he has offered them up to their closest rivals. If he didnt pass the info over the whole thing wouldnt be an issue.
Coughlan has just made the whole thing worse by passing the info across to two of their drivers and whoever else wanted it.

And as Wobbly said

If your not a motorsport fan then why the feck do you have such a big head when it comes to discussions about a subject you have no knowledge of?

You sure do seem to like jumping up and down in threads about F1. I dont understand why?

 

[MrMasher]

This is Max Mosely's latest press release dated 15 Sept.

Following various media reports over the weekend FIA President Max Mosley has responded as follows:

“Our investigation had nothing to do with questions of personality and everything to do with sporting fairness. The interests of Formula One have not been helped by comments in the press from would-be experts who questioned the motives of the investigation without waiting for the evidence. We will adopt a similar approach to any such matters which are brought to our attention in the future.

“One hundred million dollars is a large sum of money but in such a serious case any fine has to be large enough to deter similar behaviour in the future whilst remaining proportionate to the resources of the team.

“Just over half the money from this fine will go to the competing Formula One teams. Each competing team will move up one place with McLaren now taking 11th position in this year's Championship.

“The World Motor Sport Council will be invited to distribute the remainder to the FIA's national sporting authorities world-wide for them to spend on helping young drivers to progress in circuit racing and rallies. This will be the first time the FIA has had such a budget available.

“The FIA is very disappointed that Fernando Alonso and Pedro De La Rosa have been criticised in the press. They had no choice but to make available the information in their possession. It is up to every team to ensure that the rules of sporting fairness are respected. No driver should be put in the position in which Fernando and Pedro found themselves.

“For the avoidance of doubt, Ron Dennis told me on the Sunday of the Hungarian Grand Prix that notwithstanding an exchange with Fernando Alonso there was no information held by anyone within the McLaren team which might cast doubt on the World Motor Sport Council decision of 26th July. He confirmed to me this afternoon that he did indeed say this and I entirely accept that he believed it to be true at that time.”

 

[T55]

I hope to see Alonso driving for Spyker next year and Hamilton no 1 at McLaren !

 

[propersplitbrainme]

There is a definite perception that Ferrari have a habit of weaseling their way out of trouble when THEY have been found to be the guilty puppy sat next to the pile of poo.
I forget the exact years but there was the time they were found to have non-conforming parts on their car after the Japanese GP; these were deemed not to be non-conforming enough as to have an effect on the car and so they were let off. Either they were conforming or they weren't! Then there was the mystery of the new fuel tanks delivered after BAR/Honda were slammed for their multi-tank system - no investigation there.
Their lack of ethics in entering into the spirit of racing also sticks in the craw. We had the infamous Barricello/Schumacher 1/2 shuffle in Austria and the often forgotten about drive through penalty that Schumacher took on the last lap at Silverstone thereby negating the effect of the penalty and allowing him to win the race.
And Schumacher himself was an uncompromising so-and-so on the track, Ferrari never whinged when he set himself a path off the start line that would have run his own brother into the pit lane wall as he was threatening to out-drag him to the first corner at the Nurburgring. But any suggestion that Alonso affected Massa's qualifying time at Monzo at of to the stewards they go like a bunch of whinging kids.
Ferrari - pah, I ****-'em. DT_Xtremez_25:

 

[MrMasher]

Ferrari - pah, I ****-'em. DT_Xtremez_25:

COME ON KIMI!!!!!DT_Xtremez_28:

 

[propersplitbrainme]

COME ON KIMI!!!!!DT_Xtremez_28:

Ahhh Raikonnen - the man with the monotone voice. DT_Xtremez_34:
Put well and truly in his place last week by Hamilton at Monza in the only place that matters...out racing on the circuit (as opposed to the pits or in qualifying). And Massa as well. DT_Xtremez_30:

 

[Studley dangerfcuk]

Yoss,

I class myself as an F1 expert. I have missed no more than 9 races in the last 25 years due to OOA's and other duties.

For the 3 hours on a Sunday afternoon the world could blow itself up for all I care. My wife is a F1 widow.

Dont go there.

Even Ron Dennis said this after that his relantionship with Alonso was strained. To continue the thread..

Studley
DT_Xtremez_25:

 

[MrMasher]

Ahhh Raikonnen - the man with the monotone voice. DT_Xtremez_34:
Put well and truly in his place last week by Hamilton at Monza in the only place that matters...out racing on the circuit (as opposed to the pits or in qualifying). And Massa as well. DT_Xtremez_30:

Ah, Hamilton, put well and truly in his place by Raikkonen, Massa and Alonso during todays Belgian grand prix at Spa. The only track that matters to the drivers, as discovered in a poll of the F1 drivers!

It appears that Alonso has stopped his side of the garage from sharing info with Hamiltons side of the garage. Oh look..........it appears that Hamilton doesnt quite have the pace now!

Made me laugh when all the commentary muttered about Alonso being aggressive towards Hamilton during the first 4 corners. Rubbish. Previous race starts when Hamilton did similar he was hailed as the ultimate racer. Lets have some parity??

Nice one Kimi.DT_Xtremez_30:

 

[propersplitbrainme]

I know its de-rigeur these days to knock popular British talent, but at least get your facts and perspective straight

Ah, Hamilton, put well and truly in his place by Raikkonen, Massa and Alonso during todays Belgian grand prix at Spa. The only track that matters to the drivers, as discovered in a poll of the F1 drivers!

Nope, not put in his place at all Ferrari just had a superior car for this circuit. Hamilton never had the chance to put a move on monotoneboy unlike last week when he wiped Kimi's ass and sent him home to mama DT_Xtremez_28: . Put them in an equal car and Hamilton would wipe the floor with him. Raikonnen has had plenty of chances to prove his superiority in this and previous season and failed every time.

It appears that Alonso has stopped his side of the garage from sharing info with Hamiltons side of the garage. Oh look..........it appears that Hamilton doesnt quite have the pace now!

Thats just what you heard in the commentry of course, same as I did. Mere idle speculation of course and nothing to substantiate it. And besides, with Hamilton in his first year of F1 racing its hardly surprising his team mate has a little more knowledge and experience about setting cars up

Made me laugh when all the commentary muttered about Alonso being aggressive towards Hamilton during the first 4 corners. Rubbish. Previous race starts when Hamilton did similar he was hailed as the ultimate racer. Lets have some parity??

You heard what you wanted to hear, whatever words were used there was no criticism of Alonso just statements of fact- yes it WAS uncompromising racing and good on him for it. So you have your parity when you look and listen with both eyes and ears DT_Xtremez_15:

Raikkonen will fail to win the world championship this year just as he has failed in his previous years. Hamilton is in his first year and has had highs and lows like the rest, but he still leads the field even though Alonso will eventually overhaul him to take the title. What happens next year is another tale of course, one thing I DO know is that Raikkonen won't win that season either because he's not consistently good enough.
Although I suspect you don't really give a damn either way and are just indulging in a bit of 'bandwagon' Hamilton bashing DT_Xtremez_15:

 

[I Look Like Kevin Costner]

Ah, Hamilton, put well and truly in his place by Raikkonen, Massa and Alonso during todays Belgian grand prix at Spa. The only track that matters to the drivers, as discovered in a poll of the F1 drivers!

It appears that Alonso has stopped his side of the garage from sharing info with Hamiltons side of the garage. Oh look..........it appears that Hamilton doesnt quite have the pace now!

A track that obviously suited the LWB Ferrari and was expected to. Alonso has been driving for 5 years in F1 and should also have blown a rookie to the track away (Hamilton has never raced a F1 or GP 2 car there, in fact he has only seen it once in F3).

Made me laugh when all the commentary muttered about Alonso being aggressive towards Hamilton during the first 4 corners. Rubbish. Previous race starts when Hamilton did similar he was hailed as the ultimate racer. Lets have some parity??

Agreed. Ron was looking stoney face however as Alonso's chop across was a champions (i.e. Schumi) oneDT_Xtremez_42:

Nice one Kimi.DT_Xtremez_30:

Nice one indeed, 1 Ferrari driver derfinately out of the equation and he is not European!!!

As for Alonso's info to Hamilton, who feels that none will be transfered ever more as Alonso will not be driving a Mclaren next year??. I think Ron will do a "Prost" with Alonso after the Hungary e-mail fisaco and Alonso will be back with Briatore!! Oh, a Spanish test driver will be available as well!!DT_Xtremez_14:

As for Hamilton, He will drive a stormer at Interlagos and win the lot!!!