I might owe quite a bit....

[budgie]

Am in a bit of a pickle. I think I'm paying alot less than I should for my quarter and have been since August. I'm in the process of having my pay looked at as that too is all over the place. What I'm worried about is that I should have picked this up earlier, but I've been away alot recently and so haven't really noticed my pay until now.

I have questions.
1. Is the fact my quarter grading is incorrect my fault, or DHE's/PSF's?
2. Will they take it all 'in a oner' or do they still take upto 4 days pay?
3. Can I complain and redress?

 

[KingGuin]

Am in a bit of a pickle. I think I'm paying alot less than I should for my quarter and have been since August. I'm in the process of having my pay looked at as that too is all over the place. What I'm worried about is that I should have picked this up earlier, but I've been away alot recently and so haven't really noticed my pay until now.

I have questions.
1. Is the fact my quarter grading is incorrect my fault, or DHE's/PSF's?
2. Will they take it all 'in a oner' or do they still take upto 4 days pay?
3. Can I complain and redress?

1. DE grade the SFA, you will have signed an agreement on March In which told you the type and Grade you were occupying. It is your responsibility to check what you are paying against what you should be paying. Why on earth would PSF know how much you should be paying in rent?
2. Depends how much you owe.
3. What would you want to complain about? If it is a DE error then perhaps you may have grounds to.
However I am curious to learn how you were advised that your payment was at the wrong rate.

 

[Tashy_Man]

Am in a bit of a pickle. I think I'm paying alot less than I should for my quarter and have been since August. I'm in the process of having my pay looked at as that too is all over the place. What I'm worried about is that I should have picked this up earlier, but I've been away alot recently and so haven't really noticed my pay until now.

I have questions.
1. Is the fact my quarter grading is incorrect my fault, or DHE's/PSF's?
2. Will they take it all 'in a oner' or do they still take upto 4 days pay?
3. Can I complain and redress?

Just my thoughts....

1...DE's/PSF/JPA fault if it is wrong....but you would probably go around in a loop with them :-(
2. Not sure ..i've heard they can but would still argue with them if you have family to feed etc...I know i would !!!
3. ALWAYS....and funny old thing it always provides results....wether it's the answers your looking for is another thing but they do look hard into the situation...I redressed OC PSF once....they soon backed down...

Crack on and good luck........DT_Xtremez_09:

 

[KingGuin]

Just my thoughts....

1...DE's/PSF/JPA fault if it is wrong....but you would probably go around in a loop with them :-(
2. Not sure ..i've heard they can but would still argue with them if you have family to feed etc...I know i would !!!
3. ALWAYS....and funny old thing it always provides results....wether it's the answers your looking for is another thing but they do look hard into the situation...I redressed OC PSF once....they soon backed down...

Crack on and good luck........DT_Xtremez_09:

TM, nothing to do with PSF in this case. However you are correct in that an individual may, if they can prove financial hardship, apply to the Chf Clk for an advance of pay to temporarily redress the situation. As for redress, you again are correct in stating it gets answers but it is a process which can take upto 6 months and, on the face of it, would resolve nothing in this case.

 

[budgie]

1. DE grade the SFA, you will have signed an agreement on March In which told you the type and Grade you were occupying. It is your responsibility to check what you are paying against what you should be paying. Why on earth would PSF know how much you should be paying in rent?
2. Depends how much you owe.
3. What would you want to complain about? If it is a DE error then perhaps you may have grounds to.
However I am curious to learn how you were advised that your payment was at the wrong rate.

I can remember signing me license, but that's about it. I moved camps and am paying what I paid for my last quarter. Have done a bit of digging on the AP stuff. My understanding is that DHE should forward my address details with relevent grade to my unit's PSF.
I thought it looked a bit odd paying what I am for what I live in, (it's one of the new ones up here). I just asked my neighbours how much they pay each month.

 

[ForgottenName]

Just my thoughts....

1...DE's/PSF/JPA fault if it is wrong....but you would probably go around in a loop with them :-(
2. Not sure ..i've heard they can but would still argue with them if you have family to feed etc...I know i would !!!
3. ALWAYS....and funny old thing it always provides results....wether it's the answers your looking for is another thing but they do look hard into the situation...I redressed OC PSF once....they soon backed down...

Crack on and good luck........DT_Xtremez_09:

Sorry Tashy Man you are wrong about the quarter. Responsibility for ensuring that you receive correct pay and are charged correctly now firmly lies with the individual. Pre-JPA when inputs went through lots of admin hands there was always the chance that someone could misread or misinput data between the March In (or Out) and the Pay Mainframe being amended at Innsworth. Now, in the JPA era, Defence Estates (Housing Directorate) (DE (HD)) March you In (or Out) and amend the JPA database directly; PSF have no involvement.

Budgie, my advice would be much like KingGuin's, you need to get to your local DE (HD) as soon as possible.

What will then happen, if anything is wrong, they will correct the JPA database from the date of the error. That will then commence the correct charges from that date. Any debt will come out in a oner if it is under 4 days net pay - over that it will come out at that rate. However, as soon it appears on your pay statement you should, if it is too much to bear with your financial situation, you should speak to PSF and appeal.

 

[Tashy_Man]

Sorry Tashy Man you are wrong about the quarter. Responsibility for ensuring that you receive correct pay and are charged correctly now firmly lies with the individual..

Ok...Stand corrected.....I always knew that it was our job to look at pay but NOT MQ charge...I have NEVER had a sheet when i march in a quarter stating how much it will cost.....perhaps another thing that needs addressing ??

 

[ForgottenName]

Ok...Stand corrected.....I always knew that it was our job to look at pay but NOT MQ charge...I have NEVER had a sheet when i march in a quarter stating how much it will cost.....perhaps another thing that needs addressing ??

On March In, the DE (HD) should have told you what Grade the quarter is and what type, but a quick look upstairs to how many bedrooms you have got will give that away. The rates of rent, etc, are publicised every year at the same time as the pay rises and are available in the APs and now the JSPs.

Not getting at you, but with the clks taking a pounding in manpower cuts, they are not going to be able to undertake the checks that they used to do (which did not find every anomaly) to ensure that deductions are correct. If you guys don't take this responsibility on yourselves, you are going to get hurt.

 

[budgie]

Thanks everyone for the advice.
I shall be having a word with the DHE types tomorrow then. It's pretty much as I thought anyway.

 

[ForgottenName]

I can remember signing me license, but that's about it. I moved camps and am paying what I paid for my last quarter. Have done a bit of digging on the AP stuff. My understanding is that DHE should forward my address details with relevent grade to my unit's PSF.
I thought it looked a bit odd paying what I am for what I live in, (it's one of the new ones up here). I just asked my neighbours how much they pay each month.

You have got to be careful looking at APs and JSPs; JSPs hold primacy now. The APs will be amended when MOD in London get all the rules in the JSPs completed, they will then turn to getting the appropriate AP leaflets deleted. Now you may begin to realise why the clks are having such a hard time. As I said, with a few exceptions, the DE(HD) staff now amend the JPA database directly - PSF staff do not have the access to the system to make such amendments; they can only do it for single personnel.

 

[ForgottenName]

Thanks everyone for the advice.
I shall be having a word with the DHE types tomorrow then. It's pretty much as I thought anyway.

No problem Budgie, there are some decent types on this site.

 

[KingGuin]

You have got to be careful looking at APs and JSPs; JSPs hold primacy now. The APs will be amended when MOD in London get all the rules in the JSPs completed, they will then turn to getting the appropriate AP leaflets deleted. Now you may begin to realise why the clks are having such a hard time. As I said, with a few exceptions, the DE(HD) staff now amend the JPA database directly - PSF staff do not have the access to the system to make such amendments; they can only do it for single personnel.

Lordy FN, anyone woudl think you actually know what you are talking aboutDT_Xtremez_15:

 

[Humble Scribe]

Don't forget Budgie, JPA is off line for a few weeks from tomorrow so if you wait a day DE won't be able to action anything until early Apr giving you a 'stay of execution' on the arrears. If you do owe a bit they will also take a month or two before they are recovered from you; watch out for the dreaded NPD on your pay statement, that's the indication that you have a debt ready to be recovered in 2 months time (at 4 days pay). Might not be as bad as you think however as the differences aren't always that huge. PSF should be able to work out what you owe at least.

 

[Tashy_Man]

No problem Budgie, there are some decent types on this site.

I'll also say thanks to the scribblies as no doubt in the next 6 months i'll need some help

Thanks you lot ...have a scribblie ....Crack on...............DT_Xtremez_09:

 

[True Blue Jack]

Unfortunately, Budgie, (before somebody suggests it) you have no grounds to apply for write-off on "good faith" grounds; that loophole was closed long before JPA came in. The only 2 grounds for write-off are "change of position" or "estoppel". It's legal speak and I have no real idea what it means other than you need to prove that you were convinced your pay/charges were correct and tailored your quality of living accordingly. Very hard to prove.

I do not know what the procedures are these days for reducing the amount of monthly repayment (help me Kernow/PSFbeatch/PSF Angel), but I am sure you still can.

This is yet another example of a failing in JPA. Previously a good PD Clerk (they do exist TM, lol) would have picked up the discrepancy in the first month. Now the individual is expected to know EXACTLY what his pay and charges should be and take steps to have errors corrected. The fact that a year in and many people still don't realise that PSF have no input to MQ charges (and other things) worries me.

 

[Humble Scribe]

Unfortunately, Budgie, (before somebody suggests it) you have no grounds to apply for write-off on "good faith" grounds; that loophole was closed long before JPA came in. The only 2 grounds for write-off are "change of position" or "estoppel". It's legal speak and I have no real idea what it means other than you need to prove that you were convinced your pay/charges were correct and tailored your quality of living accordingly. Very hard to prove.

I do not know what the procedures are these days for reducing the amount of monthly repayment (help me Kernow/PSFbeatch/PSF Angel), but I am sure you still can.

This is yet another example of a failing in JPA. Previously a good PD Clerk (they do exist TM, lol) would have picked up the discrepancy in the first month. Now the individual is expected to know EXACTLY what his pay and charges should be and take steps to have errors corrected. The fact that a year in and many people still don't realise that PSF have no input to MQ charges (and other things) worries me.

Estoppel - the RAF's way of getting out of paying you anything back you may have received in good faith. You were just about spot on TBJ; basically if you had taken out a loan/mortgage etc based on the fact that you believed that you were rightly entitled to an allowance (or similar) and had taken that into account when calculating what you could afford to pay. You would then need to prove that you standard of living would be dramatically reduced by repaying the debt. Not worth the effort really although I have known cases proved.

Yes you can still reduce arrears according to the good book but feck knows how you go about it - not come across that in the JPA era.

 

[budgie]

I'm knackered anyway then. I don't begrudge paying what I owe. This 4 days pay buissness is near enough 200 quid!
When I can't see what I'm meant to get paid (the old daily rate) it is worrying. Since I've been promoted I haven't had one pay slip the same as another!

 

[Tashy_Man]

Previously a good PD Clerk (they do exist TM, lol) .

Have i said they didn't ?? I'll say now in all my 22 years i've only ever had 2 pay c0ck ups (2 too many though) and when i've needed to go to psf i've mostly been dealt with swiftly and in a courteous manner.......

Just hope the disscharge clerk is as good Will be there VERY SOON

Crack on..........DT_Xtremez_09:

 

[True Blue Jack]

I'm knackered anyway then. I don't begrudge paying what I owe. This 4 days pay buissness is near enough 200 quid!
When I can't see what I'm meant to get paid (the old daily rate) it is worrying. Since I've been promoted I haven't had one pay slip the same as another!

Look at "My Information Views" on JPA and divide by 365.25. You will get your daily rate of pay to within a few pennies (it's not an exact science because of problems with rounding up/down).

 

[Humble Scribe]

I'm knackered anyway then. I don't begrudge paying what I owe. This 4 days pay buissness is near enough 200 quid!
When I can't see what I'm meant to get paid (the old daily rate) it is worrying. Since I've been promoted I haven't had one pay slip the same as another!

Times you monthly basic pay by 12 and divide by 365 this should give you your daily rate near as damn it!