Afghanistan : Why are we there?

[Bitburger]

Does Blair really think the people of the UK care about Afghanistan? His claim that if we were not there it would become a training ground for extremists and terrorists is a load of cr@p. At least if they were training in Afghanistan they won't need to train in East London and the Home Counties. I say let Afghanistan become an extremist country and for all those who want Britain to become an Islamic state, simply provide them with a one way ticket there. As for the production of Opium; AGENT ORANGE.

 

[Da chief]

Of course Blair doesn't think full stop. If he did he wouldn't keep committing our troops (tri-service troops) to evermore distance places with ever dwindling resources to do an ever increasing amount of work. I would like to see what would happen if liam was in the forces and deployed to a conflict. . . . would Blair think the same then/ I doubt it.

As for imigrants . . . . whilst some of them do have benefits to this country the majority of them just come over here to rape our social system and try to convert us from our home grown ways. Send them home.. well said bitty

Rant over::/: ::/:

 

[Da chief]

Blair, you need to employ the GOYA principle and Get Off Your Arse and go and see what the troops on the ground are really doing for a job. Not an organised visit with rent a crowd employed to make you feel better. Get out on the streets and feel the sh1t when the rounds come at you. Then maybe you and your government will give the lads and lasses the kit they need to carry out the crap jobs you are asking, nay telling them to do.
Unfortunately I fear many more losses before it is over.
DT_Xtremez_32:

 

[PHIXER GIRL]

I think the can of worms was opened in the first Gulf war with Mr Snr Bush.

Yes - Agent Orange would hit the spot with a splash of Napalm for good measure. On number 10 first of course.

PG. XX.

 

[skevans]

Trouble is if we employed agent orange or 'snake and nape' we would have the environmental lobby kicking off at us as well.

Hmm... Just had a thought,

We could send the enviros into the fields first

 

[vim_fuego]

Trouble is if we employed agent orange or 'snake and nape' we would have the environmental lobby kicking off at us as well.

Hmm... Just had a thought,

We could send the enviros into the fields first

At some point we have to think of the opium trade as a indirect attack on our own shores...This poison will mess you up harder and faster than the same amount of cocaine...and use the chemicals to take out the crops...and if it harms the poor opium farmer than show him a few pictures of the British kids his product has meesed up just before his lungs fill up with fluid...

Harsh but fair....

 

[Oh sir]

I won't get into the "terrorist training" and "opium growing" arguments here, my views on those are neither here nor there.

What I will say is that in Kabul last year, I was dealing with a vehicle accident in town, and while I was speaking to the Afghan driver, a little boy of maybe 7 years old wanders up to me, dressed in a shabby pinstripe suit.
After a minute or so, he puts his arm around my leg, and hugs me for dear life. He stayed there the whole time I was dealing with the people involved.
(And before you start, yes my wallet was still there afterwards.)
I asked the Interpeter to ask the boy what he was up to.. He replied
"He feels safe around you. He trusts you because you are British, and he is glad you are here."

I'd be lying if I said it didn't bring tears to my eyes.

Throughout my tour in Kabul our interpreter explained what life was like under the Taleban. He explained how his Mother risked a certain death sentence to teach reading, writing and English to other local children in secret at her house.
He told me how life was much better for the Afghan people now that the hated Taleban were in hiding thanks to NATO. I still write to him on a weekly basis.

Now I know there will be knockers to what I've said, but in my opinion we are making a difference to peoples' lives there, and to me that's worth something. Certainly worth a measly 4 months of my life, and I'm proud to have done my tiny bit to help.

As usual, it's only my view on things. I know I'm in a minority in believing we're doing the right thing, but hey, that's what free speech is for, and that's one of the things we're bringing to the good people of Afghanistan.

 

[metimmee]

I won't get into the "terrorist training" and "opium growing" arguments here, my views on those are neither here nor there.

What I will say is that in Kabul last year, I was dealing with a vehicle accident in town, and while I was speaking to the Afghan driver, a little boy of maybe 7 years old wanders up to me, dressed in a shabby pinstripe suit.
After a minute or so, he puts his arm around my leg, and hugs me for dear life. He stayed there the whole time I was dealing with the people involved.
(And before you start, yes my wallet was still there afterwards.)
I asked the Interpeter to ask the boy what he was up to.. He replied
"He feels safe around you. He trusts you because you are British, and he is glad you are here."

I'd be lying if I said it didn't bring tears to my eyes.

Throughout my tour in Kabul our interpreter explained what life was like under the Taleban. He explained how his Mother risked a certain death sentence to teach reading, writing and English to other local children in secret at her house.
He told me how life was much better for the Afghan people now that the hated Taleban were in hiding thanks to NATO. I still write to him on a weekly basis.

Now I know there will be knockers to what I've said, but in my opinion we are making a difference to peoples' lives there, and to me that's worth something. Certainly worth a measly 4 months of my life, and I'm proud to have done my tiny bit to help.

As usual, it's only my view on things. I know I'm in a minority in believing we're doing the right thing, but hey, that's what free speech is for, and that's one of the things we're bringing to the good people of Afghanistan.

Thanks for that. You've certainly given me something to think about there. All too often you hear reports about how we are making a difference, but because of the labour-spin machine, I've never taken them seriously.

 

[GTFPDQ]

Have to agree that Oh Sirs post is a bit of an eye opener. All I get here in Canada is the ongoing body count (taleban) and losses (NATO). No feelgood reporting, nothing about reconstruction.

Sadly I found out that, for those ex 92 during 84 to 88, that Gez (Dinger) Bell who was a Flt Sgt aircrew was one of those killed in the Nimrod crash.

6 degrees of separation can be sad.

 

[Rack Shelf Bin]

Does Blair really think the people of the UK care about Afghanistan? His claim that if we were not there it would become a training ground for extremists and terrorists is a load of cr@p. At least if they were training in Afghanistan they won't need to train in East London and the Home Counties. I say let Afghanistan become an extremist country and for all those who want Britain to become an Islamic state, simply provide them with a one way ticket there. As for the production of Opium; AGENT ORANGE.

Agree totally with burger when we deploying to Leeds to quell the extremests like the ones who commited the July 7th bombings?

 

[gemarriott]

Agree totally with burger when we deploying to Leeds to quell the extremest like the ones who commited July 7th bombings?

I have every sympathy with Bitburger's views and I suspect a majority of brits do. Maybe if we had concentrated on sorting Aghanistan out before committing to halfassed action in Iraq we wouldn't be in the mess we are in now. remember back to 9/11 and the immediate aftermath, our interference in 'Stan was welcomed worldwide and abslutely necessary.

Yes I say napalm and agent orange the heroin fields and then just get out and leave them to their dark age society and rituals.

 

[skevans]

Maybe if we had concentrated on sorting Aghanistan out before committing to halfassed action in Iraq we wouldn't be in the mess we are in now. remember back to 9/11 and the immediate aftermath, our interference in 'Stan was welcomed worldwide and abslutely necessary.

Good true words, spoken honestly and in line with my own humble opinion. Although in theory we are supposed to be equipped and able to fight two small wars simultaneously, the reality is that it's extremmelly punishing for all of us. We should have cleared one mess up first, and then the next.

I'm sure that blair turned to bush and paraphrased Oliver Hardy.

'That's another fine mess you got me into"

 

[Oh sir]

Thanks GTF and metimmee. It's nice to know that one of my rare serious posts has hit home.

It is a shame that due to security, most Brits (by that I mean RAF mainly) deployed to Afghanistan will never leave the sanctity of the airbase, be you at Kabul, Kandahar, or worse. Take it from me, it can easily lead to a line of thinking that goes "Why are we here?" I witnessed it myself at Kabul airport. That, as I say, is a real shame.

If you had the chance, (and for any going there soon, I recommend it highly) I would suggest getting into the towns and villages. Maybe speak to your local Regiment guys, (who are doing a sterling job of building trust in the Brits) or the RAFP CP teams and HUMINT teams who get to mingle. They will generally be happy to take a 'guin or two out for a short time to get a taste of things. It does the soul a world of good I assure you.

For those not able to do the above, please believe me when I say we are making a huge difference to the average Afghan life there. I spoke to many in Kabul who are over the moon that the spectre of the Taleban has disappeared from their lives.
They can now use internet cafes to keep in touch with relatives. They can play football. They can dress how they please (and western fashions such as jeans are popular for the first time a result), they can feed their families due to being able for the first time to trade openly, they can listen to music and watch TV and films previously banned, and they are no longer afraid to vote for a leader of their own choosing.

I personally think that's worth fighting for.

I appreciate that my experience was only Kabul, and that things are more difficult in the taleban held areas such as Lashkagar etc. But it will come. Kabul was a stronghold of the taleban for a year or so after NATO arrived, and Helmand is a new challenge, having been left for so long by the NATO Brussels led beurocrats.
But now the British are there, it will change.

Afghans are hugely respectful of the British. I've been told personally by many a grateful resident. Let's get them on their feet, and let them install their own Government for once. We take that for granted.

And let's not desert them to the leadership they once suffered under.

 

[Tashy_Man]

Thanks GTF and metimmee. It's nice to know that one of my rare serious posts has hit home.

<Snip>

Afghans are hugely respectful of the British. I've been told personally by many a grateful resident. Let's get them on their feet, and let them install their own Government for once. We take that for granted.

And let's not desert them to the leadership they once suffered under.

I agree to a point and your slightly rosier picture goes towards that but i still can't help feeling that there are not enough troops on the ground to do the job properly. Also how long are we expected to maintain a presence there ?

It's going to be the case soon of "last one to go on det turn the lights out and lock the camp gates"

 

[skevans]

I agree with Oh Sir. I had similar experiences in Rwanda, Croatia and Kosovo. Unfortunately there is a strong minority who are against us. The majority want to live in the secure and comfortable way that we, as a society, do.

Personal experiences outside the wire go a long way to 'hearts and minds'. Never mind the political cr@p. I'm talking about my heart and my mind. It's nice to go beyond the camp boundary and learn why you are there.

 

[Dirk Thrust]

Although in theory we are supposed to be equipped and able to fight two small wars simultaneously, the reality is that it's extremmelly punishing for all of us. We should have cleared one mess up first, and then the next.

"

Absolutly correct in that statement, however the problem has arrisen because the two small missions are actually classed as medium size missions and we are not scaled for that.

 

[Bluntend]

For those not able to do the above, please believe me when I say we are making a huge difference to the average Afghan life there. I spoke to many in Kabul who are over the moon that the spectre of the Taleban has disappeared from their lives.
They can now use internet cafes to keep in touch with relatives. They can play football. They can dress how they please (and western fashions such as jeans are popular for the first time a result), they can feed their families due to being able for the first time to trade openly, they can listen to music and watch TV and films previously banned, and they are no longer afraid to vote for a leader of their own choosing.

I personally think that's worth fighting for.

I appreciate that my experience was only Kabul, and that things are more difficult in the taleban held areas such as Lashkagar etc. But it will come. Kabul was a stronghold of the taleban for a year or so after NATO arrived, and Helmand is a new challenge, having been left for so long by the NATO Brussels led beurocrats.
But now the British are there, it will change.

Afghans are hugely respectful of the British. I've been told personally by many a grateful resident. Let's get them on their feet, and let them install their own Government for once. We take that for granted.

And let's not desert them to the leadership they once suffered under.

It is this kind of post that should be across the front pages of every newspaper because if we lose what little public support there is for our pressence in Afghanistan, people will begin to care even less for the service personnel we have in theatre.

 

[gemarriott]

It is this kind of post that should be across the front pages of every newspaper because if we lose what little public support there is for our pressence in Afghanistan, people will begin to care even less for the service personnel we have in theatre.

Blunty, Excellent points. we were quick enought o embed journalists into the combat units at the start of these campaigns,

To put it bluntly our politicians fcuked up by manufacturing excuses for going tinto Iraq. Before we did go to war there the mission to Afghanistan was widely supported. Because of all the lies needed to gat the go on Iraq that support for Afghanistan has also wavered. Perhaps if B-liar had had the guts initially to tell the great unwashed that we are going to war to remove sadam and bring democrac to Iraq and perhaps get a bt of oil on the cheap there might be more sympathy from the public. The Mail actually produced some figures the other day which were quite startling. The Falklands war fund from donations far esceeded Gulf war one and massively exceeds donations from sall of b-liars escapades. this I think is down largely to the unpopularity of the wars and that joe public doesn't approve of our government starting wars The second reason is the negativity of the press, bad news sells far more papers than good news, hence a picture of a soldier on fire leaping from a tank is much more newsworthy than Oh sirs little Afghan boy hanging on to his leg.

I appreciate how dis-heartening it is for those still serving and their families to see an apparent never ending protest against what they are trying to achieve out in Iraq and afghanistaan. I know my better half sometimes gives me a kick in the slats when I start ranting against us being out there saying I should show more support for you guys. She finds it hard to understand opposition to these wars is not being disloyal to you guys. I do support you lot 100% it is just the morons who sent you there I rant against.

A glimmer of hope though, even though these wars are unpopular support for our servicemen is I believe growing. Each year the poppy appeal breaks records for donation. I stand selling poppies for about 24 hours in the local supermarkets each year and the strength of sales of wreaths, crosses and other RBL gizzits continues to amaze me. also over the last couple of years the number of children and teenagers buying poppies has increased but perhaps even more thought provoking is the number of immigrants and Eastern European assylum seekers (we have a lot of Kosovans and Serbs) who buy a poppy and say thank you.

Sorry for going on a bit but I thought you should know your work is appreciated.

 

[AndyZ]

Blunty, Excellent points. we were quick enought o embed journalists into the combat units at the start of these campaigns,

To put it bluntly our politicians fcuked up by manufacturing excuses for going tinto Iraq. Before we did go to war there the mission to Afghanistan was widely supported. Because of all the lies needed to gat the go on Iraq that support for Afghanistan has also wavered. Perhaps if B-liar had had the guts initially to tell the great unwashed that we are going to war to remove sadam and bring democrac to Iraq and perhaps get a bt of oil on the cheap there might be more sympathy from the public. The Mail actually produced some figures the other day which were quite startling. The Falklands war fund from donations far esceeded Gulf war one and massively exceeds donations from sall of b-liars escapades. this I think is down largely to the unpopularity of the wars and that joe public doesn't approve of our government starting wars The second reason is the negativity of the press, bad news sells far more papers than good news, hence a picture of a soldier on fire leaping from a tank is much more newsworthy than Oh sirs little Afghan boy hanging on to his leg.

I appreciate how dis-heartening it is for those still serving and their families to see an apparent never ending protest against what they are trying to achieve out in Iraq and afghanistaan. I know my better half sometimes gives me a kick in the slats when I start ranting against us being out there saying I should show more support for you guys. She finds it hard to understand opposition to these wars is not being disloyal to you guys. I do support you lot 100% it is just the morons who sent you there I rant against.

A glimmer of hope though, even though these wars are unpopular support for our servicemen is I believe growing. Each year the poppy appeal breaks records for donation. I stand selling poppies for about 24 hours in the local supermarkets each year and the strength of sales of wreaths, crosses and other RBL gizzits continues to amaze me. also over the last couple of years the number of children and teenagers buying poppies has increased but perhaps even more thought provoking is the number of immigrants and Eastern European assylum seekers (we have a lot of Kosovans and Serbs) who buy a poppy and say thank you.

Sorry for going on a bit but I thought you should know your work is appreciated.

Id like to iterate the point that you and all servicemen serving home and abroad are not forgotten about and appreciated by the general public who mostly loathe the government for putting our boys in peril like this...at my last Legion meeting this past monday at our silence following the Exhortation we were asked to remember ALL those who had given their lives recently (the Nimrod crew) and also asked to remember all serving personel operating abroad. Every year the ammount raised by the poppy appeal increases and services of remembrance are now held in many schools nationwide so as to teach the children about the sacrifices their peers have made for their freedom.

 

[wobbly]

I can understand what you say when you say we are making a difference but when your being heavily mortared/rocket attacked every night and they are dropping within a VERY close proximity to your tent to the extent that your body shakes because of the explosion you cannot help but ask yourself the question every single minute of your time there.

I personally think that money should be spent on getting our own country back on its feet before going on a world wide crusade to help these type of people. We are spending billions of our taxes on these areas while we let our own country go to ruin. We can't afford to spend this type of money abroad and its only going to get worse. To put it bluntly I couldn't care less about these people and when fellow Britons are dying because of roadside bombs, boobie traps, mortars, firefights against the dickheads that can't see that we are there to help then what is the point? Lets pull out our forces and leave the Americans to deal with it all, they have lots more money, personnel and tax payers to deal with it, we do not.