Stop the Officers!

[reddeathdrinker]

I've come to the conclusion that every time we get a new officer in the system, be it JENGO, SENGO or OC Eng, something has to be changed, just so they can show they have their hands on the wheel.

Why don't the silly twats realise that it's taken months to sort out the mess the last bright spark left, and we really don't need another spanner in the already-overburdened works.

This thread is now all about your brightest of bright officerial f***-ups.....

 

[tufty]

Yeah - God forbid that anybody should change anything and take people like you out of their cosy little comfort zone.

 

[sabot_age]

well, i propose that we reinvent the wheel, i suggest triangles. They'll work much better than those outdated, obsolete, wheel shaped wheels we've been using for so long!

 

[Almost_done]

Yeah - God forbid that anybody should change anything and take people like you out of their cosy little comfort zone.

Tufty I hate to disagree with you but it's not a case of getting out of the comfort zone, the new BENGO-OC Eng must show that they can manage a Flight, Squadron or a Wing by altering the work of the chaps. It's seen by 'Arry Staish as a positive management change.

Exit the Staish, exit the OC Eng Wg and flippin heck it's all change again!!

How many man-hours are wasted in the changes then in the re-altering it?

Not to mention the happy effect this all has on morale.

The best bosses I have had are the ones who have listened to the Wobbly Orange/Fruit Segment and not altered the working pattern or made a managed change, not a sweeping alteration.

Have you tried LEAN change process yet?

This is working outside of the comfort zone, the time spent on analytical meetings every Tuesday morning pointing fingers at personnel around the Station, within the workplace saying this is not my fault that is going wrong.

To prove that LEAN is working the Management are double shifting Aircraft going through the servicing, however without the spares to complete the work.

All that LEAN is showing at present is how inadequately funded we in SH are. However LEAN is still being pushed through as the way it will BE from now on, so get used to it. This will be with us now for a long time so we‘ll just have to get used to it, sorry you will have to get used to it I am out in a year’s time.

Why are so many Zobs getting behind it, they are attaching themselves to a coat-tail and enjoying the ride to further promotion and when it all goes ‘Pete Tong’ they will quite happily point the finger down at the Technicians and say ‘they were the doubters, they failed us’, we (the Orifices) followed the Airships doctrine and believe in the LEAN principles.

I believe that LEAN is a good engineering system but it does have its place and it’s not in a 1st-2nd Line environment within the RAF. Leave it to Toyota or BMW for the factory production lines, where they are manufacturing a new car, not trying to keep a fleet of middle/old aged aircraft flying along with the associated problems that then leaves us with.

Oh well may have gone off on a tangent here………………..

 

[Twonston Pickle]

As an orifice, I have few new ideas for you :

1. Let's have Flight Line Mechanics (FLEMs for short) to do a number of aircraft jobs and chores.

2. Let's reduce the RAF to a much smaller number immediately after a major conflict. After all, there wont be another one for ages......

3. Let's procure tomorrow's equipment for yesterday's wars/conflicts.

4. Promote me for my change management skills and fresh new ideas.

Hang on.................haze clearing, 1920s history coming back, 1950s history coming back.........drat, I've been beaten to it . No more promotion for me, unless I do it all anyway and hope nobody notices that this has happened before! CAS here I come

 

[Cat of Shadows]

The Problem with an Inherited Change Culture

The Problem with an Inherited Change Culture

Be it LEAN or any new working practice that any one of the three services has adopted in the last 10-15 years, I strongly feel that regardless of rank, the underlying issue here is the one mentioned in the title.................Inherited Change Culture.

Sadly I feel that the Services have been self perpetuating this problem now for at least the last 10 years since the original round of cuts in the mid-90s. The more junior members of our community have grown up in a service that allows change for changes sake and therefore think it is the norm. It may be refreshing to hear, but as a zobbit and ex-blighter I tend to be with the 'If it 'aint broke don't fix it' crowd. Although equally, new process or improved working practices should be introduced if there is genuine real gain to be made in the efficiency of the service as a whole.

I sadly, as a spook, don't know enough to comment on LEAN directly, but I do feel we have s****ed ourselves in the a*** over the personnel reductions this time around. This has nothing to do with leaner fighting force to better meet future military commitments, we can't meet requirements at present, its simply political will to save money................its about time chiefs actually said no to political penny pinching. After all, in the light of the current international climate, the Govt. are hardly going to sack the Armed Forces, or leave us truly destitute, are they?? Sadly though, if they carry on along this process for much longer, it is fair to say that what may be left of a cohesive service morale will finally disappear altogether and that, quite frankly, would be an absolute travesty.

 

[Bitburger]

Be it LEAN or any new working practice that any one of the three services has adopted in the last 10-15 years, I strongly feel that regardless of rank, the underlying issue here is the one mentioned in the title.................Inherited Change Culture.

Sadly I feel that the Services have been self perpetuating this problem now for at least the last 10 years since the original round of cuts in the mid-90s. The more junior members of our community have grown up in a service that allows change for changes sake and therefore think it is the norm. It may be refreshing to hear, but as a zobbit and ex-blighter I tend to be with the 'If it 'aint broke don't fix it' crowd. Although equally, new process or improved working practices should be introduced if there is genuine real gain to be made in the efficiency of the service as a whole.

I sadly, as a spook, don't know enough to comment on LEAN directly, but I do feel we have s****ed ourselves in the a*** over the personnel reductions this time around. This has nothing to do with leaner fighting force to better meet future military commitments, we can't meet requirements at present, its simply political will to save money................its about time chiefs actually said no to political penny pinching. After all, in the light of the current international climate, the Govt. are hardly going to sack the Armed Forces, or leave us truly destitute, are they?? Sadly though, if they carry on along this process for much longer, it is fair to say that what may be left of a cohesive service morale will finally disappear altogether and that, quite frankly, would be an absolute travesty.

Well said that man. The lack of manpower is certainly hurting in the aircraft eng trades and I suspect in most others. Blair wants his place on the World stage but is not prepared to provide the cash to pay for it. He is more concerned with social engineering and my fear is the HM Armed Forces will just become smoke and mirrors like most of New Labour policies; mind you what is the alternative?

 

[Cat of Shadows]

Well said that man. The lack of manpower is certainly hurting in the aircraft eng trades and I suspect in most others. Blair wants his place on the World stage but is not prepared to provide the cash to pay for it. He is more concerned with social engineering and my fear is the HM Armed Forces will just become smoke and mirrors like most of New Labour policies; mind you what is the alternative?

A fully re-instated non-EO, non-PC, non tree hugging 'roll over and get your tummy tickled' right wing facista bully boy conservative government...............thats the alternative. Something to reinstill the true sense of purpose and pride.

I would have gone to the ends of the earth for Maggie, Bliar irritates me just for breathing. I'm a great believer in all that is truly British about this small little island, and that includes the traditional espri de corp within the RAF, I wouldn't have joined in the first place otherwise. But the so called New Labour is not just ripping the guts out of the services but the heart of the nation also. It makes me increasingly sad an angry at what is happening to the service in the so called guise of 'progress' and whilst I agree that continual development is necessary, as I said earlier, not for the sake of it.

I know where my 'X' goes at the polls. A wind of change is blowing in the air!!
Revolution brother!!!!!!!!!!

 

[TheHogwartsBEngO]

A fully re-instated non-EO, non-PC, non tree hugging 'roll over and get your tummy tickled' right wing facista bully boy conservative government...............thats the alternative. Something to reinstill the true sense of purpose and pride.

I would have gone to the ends of the earth for Maggie, Bliar irritates me just for breathing. I'm a great believer in all that is truly British about this small little island, and that includes the traditional espri de corp within the RAF

I know where my 'X' goes at the polls. A wind of change is blowing in the air!!
Revolution brother!!!!!!!!!!

Sadly the term 'esprit de corps' is not very british. Let us use 'spirit of the collective' instead.

and when I feel thirsty, I'll pop into a coffee for a quick coffee...

 

[Cat of Shadows]

Sadly the term 'esprit de corps' is not very british. Let us use 'spirit of the collective' instead.

and when I feel thirsty, I'll pop into a coffee for a quick coffee...

No, but it is the historically and traditionally correct way we have always referred to the general well being and cohesive nature of the RAF, so I make no apologies.

Whilst I respect your opinion, 'espri de corp' is the correct terminology, the one that should be used, (as after all 'it 'aint broke') and I would be grateful if you could refrain from trying to suppress my traditional values and beliefs. I feel that your comment is indicative of this limp wristed, tree-hugging, namby pamby over-politically correct society which is sucking all the colour out of what is already a less than colourful world.

 

[rest have risen above me]

Theft

Theft

Well said Cat.......
If we can't steal a bit of Johnny Foriegners language what can we do. I mean we share our language with everybody (Usually loudly and slowly when we realise itis Johnny Foreigner) We're not allowed an empire any more (though the yanks let us share theirs when it suits them) we might as well make use of the language. And seen as it was French you were using thats even better the more we use the more it'll be mutated into english and at some point we'll finish what we started at Agincourt. But back to the thread My new jengo has been my new jengo before at two different units. Guess whats happening???

 

[Bluntend]

After all, in the light of the current international climate, the Govt. are hardly going to sack the Armed Forces, or leave us truly destitute, are they??

Cat, don't tempt fate...

I agree with all the posts above. There is so much (self induced) pressure on officers at every level to 'make their mark' and easiest way to do it is to change something. IMHO, to really make your mark is to turn round to your superiors and (if justified) say No. If its unsafe, demoralising, unproductive and excessively labour intensive, its up to all of us to complain up the chain. Too often we all fall into the trap of complaining sideways which achieves nothing.

Maybe if the occasional Stn Cdr took enough of an interest in his own Station to realise the impact that LEAN (and other methodologies) will make on his capability to project air power, not to mention the morale of his staff, and said 'No' to his superiors, we wouldn't have all the problems we currently face. Too often officers put achieving promotion ahead of achieving what is right for the Air Force. See the LEAN at Lyneham thread for examples...

 

[Fablon biff chit]

See the LEAN at Lyneham thread for examples...

My unit was leaned, and now our efficiency is well down as no one can be arsed to do a proper job anymore, morale is that low.

But, is lean the problem or is it simply change?

 

[The Helpful Stacker]

The unit I'm at was recently 'leaned' and it'd work fine, if only the spanner monkeys could plan their fecking lives/work program a bit better and order all the parts for a job in one hit, rather than go 'workstop' on a consumable which is actually sat on a shelf in ESG.

 

[Weebl]

But, is lean the problem or is it simply change?

IMO it is LEAN and similar industry driven methodologies. When a new aircraft type comes into service everything changes, yet you see people volunteering to go on new aircraft. Hardly resistant to change?

The trouble arises when somebody who has no idea how a first line aircraft environment works decides they know what is best, and when they tell you their idea's and you respond by informing them that it would be dangerous and impractical, you are labelled 'resistant to change'

Resistant to idiots yes, resistant to change, no.

Helpful stacker, I take it from your comments I can include you in the category 'No idea how an aircraft engineering environment works'

 

[M_for_Mother]

Not wanting to throw oil on the fire, but all of the LEAN teams I have seen were made up of JNCOs and SNCOs, not Officers, as the thread suggests. In fact, at a small Harrier base in Rutland they made quite a point of the fact that their recent changes had been led by the Engineers on the shop floor.

I do admit that I later heard that the guys thought it was sh!t, but I find it difficult to see how something developed by one group of Engineers, could be seen as so bad by the same chaps.

The sad truth is that the AF Board have decided that we can trade manpower for capability and Suppliers and Engineers can like it or leave. Maybe what makes us good leaders is understanding that whatever we think, change IS going to happen. We can make things easier on the guys who work for us by keeping it as quick and as painless as possible, rather than standing back and moaning about how scheisser our lot has become. Dont mean to come out with what may seem to some as empty words, but I do believe that the guys look to their SNCOs and Offrs for guidance in these times and, sometimes, find us wanting.

MFM

 

[The Helpful Stacker]

You can take whatever you like from my comments. As people at my unit have noticed, the squadrons seem hell bent on over-using the 'workstop' system in an attempt to break the centralised supply system and 'prove' lean doesn't work rather plan ahead.

Not my words but those of the Staish during a recent lean briefing.

When the Fwd Del lads are running back and forward between ESG and one squadron repeatedly all afternoon, delivering one C store after another for the same person doing the same job a lack of prior planning sort of becomes apparent.

Obviously this is all in my ever-so-humble, lowly, non-Cosford trained supremo opinion of course.

 

[Weebl]

Not wanting to throw oil on the fire, but all of the LEAN teams I have seen were made up of JNCOs and SNCOs, not Officers, as the thread suggests.

Obviously I can only speak from my own experiences but the LEAN teams I have seen have been mostly made up of lower ranks than that! However the key point is that they are driven by a higher paid forkwit who knows nothing about the problems we face day to day (and in my case I am referring to a civvy rather than an officer, was answering a point in the thread rather than the thread title) Point to ponder though. As a shift manager you have been asked to provide 2 people to contribute to the eng wing 'lean team' Do you send your best 2 blokes or 2 blokes you can afford to lose off shift? (no offence intended if any of you are on LEAN teams, just going from what I have seen, and obviously I do not intend to tar all with the same brush, just pointing out that the majority of LEAN team members are people that the shift could not be bothered to keep hold of)

Stacker.

Fact. Stuff breaks at the most innoportune time, It can not always be planned for and sometimes a techie will demand something and while fitting it, will either find broken, or break another bit. This means they need the new bit.

While you might be right, somebody might be taking the p1ss, it was this bit I had issue with.

if only the spanner monkeys could plan their fecking lives/work program a bit better and order all the parts for a job in one hit,

Not always possible, regardless of what your staish reckons.

 

[Bluntend]

It seems that across the Air Force there are two distinct interpretations of what LEAN actually is;

The first is that LEAN is a way of increasing productivity without an increased expenditure. This is the less risky approach because if the changes brought in don't work, the output doesn't change. Okay, you don't make the improvements you want but you don't lose any productivity as a result.

The second is a way of maintaining the same output and productivity but with reduced resources. This is far more risky as if it all goes tits up not only have you lost a percentage of your resources (namely your staff) but your productivity has also gone down.

It seems to me, and I am in no way an expert on this as I only have experience of LEAN at a handful of stations, that it is option no. 2 that is being applied most readily. Lets face it the biggest drivers in the air force right now are getting costs down not productivity up. Hence, we are now operating at increased risk with reduced manpower.

I guess it all boils down to what the 'powers that be' want - more sorties, more traing hours, more serviceable ac on the line, all delivered with the same resources? Or alternatively the same number of sorties, same number of training hours, same number of 'S' ac on the line but delivered with less cost? I know what I'd rather see but there again, I'm not going to get promoted because I've saved the airforce a few thousand quid. Damnit.

 

[shoutingwind]

i guess thats the big thing with relovutionary ideas- they always come round again- or in the case of the new wheel previously invented on this thread- are a bit pointy and kinda hurt.

24/30 and 47/LXX for lyneham- umm deja vu i'm sure thats what happen last year....................... (wonders off to live in a happy little world with bunny rabbits and pink fluffy clouds)