Hot News on the merger..

[Bellowyelly]

Hot off the press of the TG9 Mar 12 Newsletter.

The non-controlling element of TG12 (Aerospace Systems Operators (ASOps) and Aerospace Systems Managers (ASMs)) will be merged with TG9 (FOA/FOM) counterparts on 1 Oct 12. The new TG will be TG9 and titled Aerospace Operations Trade. TG9 (ATC) will join the controlling element of TG12 (Weapons Controllers); these 2 elements will then collectively be known as TG12.

 

[orgASMic]

Any chance of a link? Can't find the source document on the intranet anywhere.

 

[FOMz]

Intranet links are verboten mate.. You can only link to open source sites.

 

[SirSaltyHelmet]

Its on TG9 website.... BellowYelly has got all the facts though, bar paybanding which is up for review

 

[orgASMic]

Blimey, that took some effort to find. The only way I could get to the TG9 website was via a link on the ATM Staneval page on the Shawbury site. there does not seem to be any way of getting to it from anywhere on the Air Cmd website (where it is hosted). It does not help that it is under COS (Ops) who no longer exists. The DII search engine comes up with diddly. Progress, eh?

 

[NotAnIDOYet]

At least we both get rid of our controller trash!

Pay banding is going to be the nightmare, alright for me as I'm at the top of the high band but pound to a pinch of merde we all drop to the lower band.

 

[NotAnIDOYet]

Blimey, that took some effort to find. The only way I could get to the TG9 website was via a link on the ATM Staneval page on the Shawbury site. there does not seem to be any way of getting to it from anywhere on the Air Cmd website (where it is hosted). It does not help that it is under COS (Ops) who no longer exists. The DII search engine comes up with diddly. Progress, eh?

It's because flight ops are "speshul"

 

[PraiseBacon]

Its on TG9 website.... BellowYelly has got all the facts though, bar paybanding which is up for review

Hmmmm, let me see, paybanding review in current climate.

One sec I'll put on my “Carnac the Magnificent” turban and see what the answers will be.

For TG9 – non controlling group, for which the new versions of AATC are, I would assume, still the biggest element (unless all but a handful of airfields et are left now) . I see this one settling on the lower bay band – with maybe a few jobs going up a rank if they clearly deserved more money

As an aside, didn’t something similar happen at West Drayton / LATCC a while back ? Yes this job (MAS OR) deserves a higher band, but the trade as a whole doesn’t – so from now these jobs that SAC’s have done well for 20 years will be done by Cpls. That’s said, I enjoyed my time on MAS North

TG12, controller elements – aren’t both already on the higher band? I see staying on the higher band , but a few rumors of being down banded first to test the waters, and make people feel happy they kept the higher pay band when there is no pay rise next year.

I’m a pint of 6X confident in my predictions – anyone think I’m off the mark and care to take the bet?

 

[NotAnIDOYet]

Hmmmm, let me see, paybanding review in current climate.

One sec I'll put on my “Carnac the Magnificent” turban and see what the answers will be.

For TG9 – non controlling group, for which the new versions of AATC are, I would assume, still the biggest element (unless all but a handful of airfields et are left now) . I see this one settling on the lower bay band – with maybe a few jobs going up a rank if they clearly deserved more money

As an aside, didn’t something similar happen at West Drayton / LATCC a while back ? Yes this job (MAS OR) deserves a higher band, but the trade as a whole doesn’t – so from now these jobs that SAC’s have done well for 20 years will be done by Cpls. That’s said, I enjoyed my time on MAS North

TG12, controller elements – aren’t both already on the higher band? I see staying on the higher band , but a few rumors of being down banded first to test the waters, and make people feel happy they kept the higher pay band when there is no pay rise next year.

I’m a pint of 6X confident in my predictions – anyone think I’m off the mark and care to take the bet?

Pay banding is funny in TG 12, SAC/Cpl are low band, Sgt high, FS low, WO high apart from SNCO WC who are on high band Sgt to WO.

Upranking jobs is not the way to go as it distorts the management pyramid and gives you wacky promotions. It's all done on percentages of rank doing certain jobs - my specialism is what makes ASM Sgts high band (don't shoot the messenger, it's just the way it is!), IIRC the gauntlet has been thrown down for some FOM types to come and do the surveillance streaming course. Getting a good number of people qualified quickly will help us keep the pay!

 

[FOMz]

Do you think that any FOMs would actually volunteer for the Surveillance Course though? Pesonally I think not... Not many would want to go your way, but a lot of the bunker monkey types want to come into the sunshine... Its going o be difficult thats for sure.

 

[NotAnIDOYet]

Do you think that any FOMs would actually volunteer for the Surveillance Course though? Pesonally I think not... Not many would want to go your way, but a lot of the bunker monkey types want to come into the sunshine... Its going o be difficult thats for sure.

Completely agree mate, I would probably jump to the FOM side of the fence given the chance! But if being Surveillance Officers keeps us in the high band then should people be willing to bend over and take it for a couple of years?

 

[PraiseBacon]

Pay banding is funny in TG 12, SAC/Cpl are low band, Sgt high, FS low, WO high apart from SNCO WC who are on high band Sgt to WO.Upranking jobs is not the way to go as it distorts the management pyramid and gives you wacky promotions. It's all done on percentages of rank doing certain jobs - my specialism is what makes ASM Sgts high band (don't shoot the messenger, it's just the way it is!), IIRC the gauntlet has been thrown down for some FOM types to come and do the surveillance streaming course. Getting a good number of people qualified quickly will help us keep the pay!

I always knew scopies were weird ;-)But would agree FOM'ville will have to step up big time for for the combined group to move to high. Still willing to bet it Iit will settle on lower of bands where there is a discrepancy though. (I don't lack faith in the people of TG9 - I just think in current climate the odds will be heavily stacked against them to save money)I have no strong views on up ranking jobs, I've seen it happen and it did mean the score to make promotion board to cpl came down for aatc's for a year or two (created about 40 new cpls's from memory - but I was in Cyprus at the time, so many memories of the period are cloudy) It did move the bottleneck up one level for a while though, particularly for those not going on to controllers.

 

[FOMz]

And it was a bottleneck that blighted the trade for years... I really hope that is a route they don't go down again... But if promotion to SNCO meant taking the SC course and passing...well thats a different ballgame altogether..

 

[NotAnIDOYet]

And it was a bottleneck that blighted the trade for years... I really hope that is a route they don't go down again... But if promotion to SNCO meant taking the SC course and passing...well thats a different ballgame altogether..

Something I advocated years ago and got stoned for being a heretic!

 

[FOMz]

You are a heretic... You're a scopie!.. But don't worry, soon you and your ilk will be born again... DT_Xtremez_14:

 

[General Slim]

And it was a bottleneck that blighted the trade for years... I really hope that is a route they don't go down again... But if promotion to SNCO meant taking the SC course and passing...well thats a different ballgame altogether..

Why should all this bother you ?, your a civvie now !

 

[HotspurIDO]

Something I advocated years ago and got stoned for being a heretic!

I agreed, for what it was worth. Too many dinosaurs in the trade however. Too many folk used to the easy life.

I was opposed to the 9/12 merge, but now it's happening - well, maybe it's just the tonic we need to shake things up a little and get rid of the dead wood. I don't expect immediate and spectacular results, our dinosaurs will dig their heels in and I dare say that there are a few of a similar vein on the 9 side of the fence. But hope springs eternal for the future, time for some forward thinking. We've been pretty good at that on the ABM/ASM side of things, despite the moaning of those alluded to who would rather move from office to office at the same camp for decades at a time rather than join the REAL Air Force. I get the impression that the ATC side has historically been quite complacent, and not embraced change readily, but I stand to be corrected on that - I'm no expert on that side of things at all.

One things for sure, communication will improve! Once again, very real decisions have been made regarding ME, MY career and MY future ... yet I rely on an internet 'rumour' forum to keep me appraised. I brought this up over a year ago with the powers-that-be, and was put firmly back in my box with a gypsy's warning to mind what I said on e-goat. I wouldn't have minded that so much had the hint been taken and communication improved - but it seems NOTHING has changed. The FOM mafia seem to have their finger on the pulse however, so I welcome their openness and hope it rubs off as we all become one.

It seems now that we have to make a conserted effort to get to know one another better, to understand each others' skill sets and employability and get a feel for the future. Right now I expect there are large numbers of FOMs who are dreading the prospect of being incarcerated in a bunker - because that's all they think scopies do. On the flip side I imagine I have a number of ASM brethren chomping at the bit to get JPA preferences updated as they can not WAIT to be sat in the sun behind some tower in Akrotiri or Gibraltar quaffing pink gins and brandy sours - because that's all FOMs do, right?!

So 12 will be the controlling element ... interesting. Can we expect to see Direct Entry SNCO(FC) in the future? I guess that's inevitable. (Not that I care much as long as I can keep them at arms length)