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Fun Job

rest have risen above me

Warrant Officer
1000+ Posts
3,475
15
38
Doesn't ATC have a technical machine for testing if the pan's too slippy to tow jets out on? I've just stood and watched SATCO testing our pan by whizzing an astra estate up and down trying to lose the back end.
And I'm jealous. I want a go.... :D
 

J Y Kelly

Corporal
205
7
18
Billy Whizz said:
Sure if anyone else tried it they'd have their 600 taken off them! :mad:

Do PTIs do the Fitness Test? Do Rocks do CCS?

The thing you on about is called a Runway Friction Meter aka Mu-Meter. Key word Runway. You need to do a steady 40mph down the runway to get a reading. At the end of the day it tells you the obvious and the tried and trusted method of slamming the breaks on gives you a fair idea of how dangerous it is out there.

The assistant who manages to break the Mu-Meter at the beginning of the Blacktop season is guaranteed a spec rec.
 

Flopsie

LAC
52
0
0
rest have risen above me said:
Doesn't ATC have a technical machine for testing if the pan's too slippy to tow jets out on? I've just stood and watched SATCO testing our pan by whizzing an astra estate up and down trying to lose the back end.
And I'm jealous. I want a go.... :D

Yes, it's normally called a LAC as the only time you need to test the rwy friction is when it's snowing, -10 and blowing a gale!! :eek:

The device you mention is a small trailer with 3 wheels the middle of which is toed in slightly to give some resistance or frictional coefficient (Mu). This is then driven (leagally) at 40mph 2-3 times up and down the runway. A little box in the cab give a print out and a decision is made whether to fly or ice-skate.

The use of an astra to do handbrake turns is the preffered method but not as accurate. :cool:
 

J Y Kelly

Corporal
205
7
18
No no no. The outer wheels are toed out for runs, the amount of friction caused by these wheels not running parallel is transmitted to a pressure sensor which then tells you how slippy it is. The central wheel only records the distance travelled and speed. I think that's right, if I'm wrong I will have to find an LAC to explain it to me again.

In the bad old days with the old machine, at a Canberra/Nimrod base in Cambridgeshire we spent the best part of a morning running up and down the runway. Constantly fiddling with the clockwork mechanism and it's waxed recording paper. Playing around with that aluminium table tennis bat to try and work out the braking action and eventually deciding it was poor. OC Ops drives his mini down the runway slams on the brakes and declares it fit for ops.
 

SirSaltyHelmet

Thoroughly Nice Chap
4,329
0
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At St Mawgan in Mid 80s I had to keep doing runs until I got a reading!! ATCO couldnt understand that no reading means no braking action...

Controllers, got to love them
 

SirSaltyHelmet

Thoroughly Nice Chap
4,329
0
0
Oh I forgot, the same A$$ wanted and SAC to sit on the MU-Meter to get a reading too, he thought by having more weight on it then he could have a better chance of a reading!!

Hanging the ankers on a landrover at 40mph was much more fun!
 

Flopsie

LAC
52
0
0
J Y Kelly said:
No no no. The outer wheels are toed out for runs, the amount of friction caused by these wheels not running parallel is transmitted to a pressure sensor which then tells you how slippy it is. The central wheel only records the distance travelled and speed. I think that's right, if I'm wrong I will have to find an LAC to explain it to me again.

JY, thanks for the correction I shall put myself Immediately on remidial training sometime in August.

Can anyone substantiate the urban myth of someone actually taking the RHAG on a Mu meter run?
 
H

HilstonPols

Guest
True

True

Yep it is true the new (at the time) hydraulic Mu-Meter was used to engage the RHAG, The man in question is still out there and knows he cannot hide. Didn't know he had got his crown though, \o/ gratz John!

Oops did I say too much :p
 
F

FOMP

Guest
I've seen people barrel roll mu-meters!

First one at Waddo in the old days of the "safety straps" (anyone remember them) that were designed to stop it jack knifing on ice. The poor bloke (it should have been me as I was duty driver, but I was doing a brew for the controllers) was given the minimum amount of time to do a run "between the cables" with a NATO E-3A on radar. The split pin was bent and didn't go through the eye claw properly when he hitched it up, FFWD to him doing a U-turn on the rwy at the end of run 1, the towing eye parts company with the hook. D I S A S T E R ....... the eye digs into the rwy and the safety straps ensure that the whole device is still being pulled forward and 0 V E R onto its top, there were cogs and wheels and bits of glass every where. OC GEF tried to hang draw and quarter the driver but the Boss and I stood up for him in the kangaroo court (and demostraited that the towing hook was faulty) and so the lad got away with an admonished phew..... He's still in and a SNCO and I bet he uses this forum, Hi ya mate if you're there.

The driver told local straight away about the FOD, guess what they told him to do, vacate the wreckage onto the grass and then they landed the E-3A through the lot, damn clever them controllers sometimes. They bloody caused it by not giving him enough time to do the run. Tip to all....NEVER rush a Mu-Meter run as it can be very dangerous. Tip to controllers...learn how to do a run and then do one on ice at 40MPH and maybe you will be a bit wiser and more patient when awaiting results in future.

The second roll was a very silly boy (you Know who you are) trying to tow a Mu-Meter at 40 MPH round a bend on a taxiwaysurface that was dangerous to stand on, let alone drive on. Without the safety straps he jack knifed, looped the RFM and ended up on the grass, very fortunate to be upright. Results......one written off RFM.......an MT enquiry, luckily the dip sticks swallowed the story he told them and he got away with it, a real pension threatening manouvre that one.

Take it from FOMPY folks, the morals of the story are:

1) It is a dangerous task, be very careful.

2) You can always say NO. If a controller asks you to do a run and it seems far too risky, say so, you are the expert and if he/she wants the run done badly enough they can do it.

3) Think safety first all the time and don't rush.

Even better, get the SATCO to show you his Colin Mcrae impersonation! :D
 
I

insideinfoman

Guest
In my long and distant past, I was out doing a run at a F4 base in Germany and coming off the Rwy onto the tawiway went sidewards round the corner in just as if it one fixed unit, luckly enough for me the rover and mu-meter stayed in one piece as we slid sidewards and eventualy can to grinding halt, much to the amusement of the local controller.
 
R

Ratt

Guest
Hehe .. mu-meters bless 'em ... at least they can stay in the cab now and fiddle with the zx spectrum thing .... remember trying to sort that graph paper out when it was pishing down?

As for the Astra handbrake method, there's a guide in the little yellow book iirc that tells you how to do the test sans-mumeter.

Also, it's not just SATCOs that get to do donuts on the ASP, we watched some armourers spin the bomb loader at least 3 times the other day .. they looked like they were having fun .... hope it was fun anyway ... at least they didnt drop their load.
 
R

Retard Retard

Guest
JY & FOMz.

I too was at same airbase with you hooligans.

FOMz-
just blow into the pipe as you went along
So that's why they transferred you to Ops, ho ho. :D
 
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Mu Meters...............who needs them, bring back the good old days in RAFG. All you needed was Mobile North, 60 MPH and a lot of nerve.

Braking action was judged on how many times you spun on the Rwy. :eek: :eek:
 

ED-SET

LAC
44
0
0
Unless the caravan gets in the way!!! one way to scare the **** out of the guy inside reading a book is to smash into the van with a LWB and then come up with the best excuse ever.......scaring birds.....priceless :D
 
T

The Controller

Guest
Part Time PFOM
Mu Meters...............who needs them, bring back the good old days in RAFG. All you needed was Mobile North, 60 MPH and a lot of nerve.
Braking action was judged on how many times you spun on the Rwy

AHHhhhh!....The old "Gut Mobile Boys"!!! From what I recall (glancing from the warmth of the Tower whilst also watching women going into and out of the Banks) it would be near impossible to crank those old heaps (the vehicles - not the drivers) to anything approaching 60 MPH!!!!

Slinks back into bath chair with distant, knowing look, contented grin and large brandy;)
 
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