Rich Druggies

[Stax]

I was watching "Guess the year" on VH1 (bear with me I do have a point!) As the music plays they give little snippets of info on the bottom of the page to assist in your guessing. One of them that came up was "River Phoenix tragically dies of a drug overdose outside the Viper rooms". Now my point is (at last I hear you mutter) Do you thinkthis is "tragic", Aberfan was tragic, Heisal stadium was tragic, "Challenger" was tragic. Is a rich, spoiled, feted, ferkwit, who shoves a poison in their arms or up their noses entitled to our sympathy when it is a well known fact that drugs are addictive and willkill you if used to excess or for too long. Some poor uneducated kid hooked by scum drug peddlers may get my sympathy, in many ways they are stuck in a circle of 5hit, stealing or prostituting themselves for their next fix, but the well off, famous cnuts, as far as I am concerned can die screaming in agony, they perpetuate the myth that any kind of substance abuse is "cool". I remember as a kid, lads at my school buying LSD tabs for 10p (this in the days when 20 fags were 25p) I know that one went on to harder stuff and is now dead and another has pyschiatric problems to this day. Would anyone here give a to55 if Docherty and Moss died with a needle in their arms, and why is that soft biatch still employed? What message does its send the young lasses (of which I am a dad to one)

Rant Off.

 

[Bum Custard]

That Pete Docherty bloke should have his ball bag surgically removed with a blunt and very rusty spoon and shoved up his buttocks. Total scummer.

 

[gemarriott]

I kin hate drugsDT_Xtremez_32:

Cousin died in 71 of an overdose, best pre RAF mate same in 74 the year after I joined up. I never understood what they were doing then and I don't now.

stax mate you got it right big time, the more of the rich cnuts that die taking that vile 5hit the better it suits me. At least their painful death may serve as a warning to young kids not to start.DT_Xtremez_32:

Mind you I have heard people bang on about bozze the same wayDT_Xtremez_34:

 

[Plumber]

I'm surprised the government haven't made it legal yet. The thought of all that VAT they'd be able to collect if they sold it legally must be making their mouths water. The only feeling I have towards those people that get hooked on the stuff is pity. Maybe if the media stopped glorifying celebs who take the stuff and better education at school explaining what drugs actually do to you (including the sickening video's and pictures), instead of don't do it because I said so, should be the way forward.

 

[gemarriott]

Maybe if the media stopped glorifying celebs who take the stuff and better education at school explaining what drugs actually do to you (including the sickening video's and pictures), instead of don't do it because I said so, should be the way forward.

Good point, I remember we had something similar at Wattisham. Everyone got to see the 5hitty nit of drugs including post mortems. Made everyone think a a bit

 

[TheHogwartsBEngO]

We had a drugs brief at Cranditz complete with gory pictures. I felt really sick throughout. I wouldn't have touched the stuff before - I definately won't after that.

As for celebrity glorification - couldn't agree more.

Take Pete Doherty for example. Complete waste of space drug user. I bought the Libertines CD for a listen because everyone screamed how great it was. 2 reasonably good tunes - the rest absolute pish.

I think Pete has about 2 years before self-destruction and death in drug over-dose horror. In that time, if he spends a couple of months clean, he might make a couple of records with Babyshambles.

Post mortem however - he will become a legend - live and die young and a trail-blazer of a great musical revolution. He is only really widely known 'cos he was once porking Kate Moss - not becuase he is a great musician.

Hendrix? Cobain? Mama Cas? (ok, the last one was a bit tongue in cheek)

Does it matter that Pete's music is utter tosh? His performance at live 8 with Sir Elton John was the most bizarre and freakish thing I have seen in a long time. But I suspect he will still become a role model and 'inspiration' to many young artists in the future.

Maybe I'm getting old.

 

[Tojo]

Drugs are merely another form of conveyance for self-destruction, if one is intent on this path, there are other ways of achieving this.

Alcohol, bad diet, lack of exercise and smoking are all equally as dangerous and are all shrouded in ignorance and stupidity as much as drugs, and you can include 'prescription' strength drugs in that argument too.

The people you mentioned are all in the 'spotlight' as celebrity black holes, devoid of talent, but newsworthy as a result of who they're shagging. As such they are front page fodder in the highlighting of their destructiveness.

But we wear rose-tinted specs when it comes to the likes if Keith Richards, Lou Reed, Jim Morrison etc, because they made drugs 'cool', laying the foundation for the fcuk ups stealing oxygen as we speak...

I am neither condoning nor condemning the use of drugs, I never touched anything when I was in the mob, drank like a fish though (but no-one minded that all!) but as a civvy I have experimented (ahem) here and there, but as a fully paid member of the british class structure, who pays his bills, and considers himself an upstanding member of society, what goes on in my house is my business.

For those who say, they lost mates 'because they went onto the hard stuff' has got nothing to do with drugs. I've lost mates through drink, drink related death, mental degradation, cancer and drugs, but their fate, I believe, was pre-ordained, if you believe that it makes life more understanding in my opinion.

After all, getting hold of drugs is as easy as falling of a roof (sorry Rod) and you can't judge, condemn nor frown until you have opened up the doors of perception. Man.

Toke anyone?

 

[Tojo]

...Made everyone think a a bit

Where to get them from?

 

[TheHogwartsBEngO]

Thought provoking post there.

Kinda "don't judge someone until you walk a mile in their shoes"

Tis true - my back-ground and upbringing has steered me well away from drugs and I'm sure many of the other goat users are the same - we can all look at the drug problem from our ivory tower.

But you rightly point out we don't have a lot of drug abuse in the RAF - but there certainly is a lot of drinking going on - how much difference is there really?

 

[Plumber]

Thought provoking post there.

Kinda "don't judge someone until you walk a mile in their shoes"

In that case magistrates and law lords should all be ex convicts and the general dregs of society?

There may not be great deal of difference in the end result between prescribed drugs, alcohol ciggies if not taken responsibly and illegal drugs, if abused. However the later has been deemed socially unacceptable by the majority of society with the danger to their users being to great to allow the legal sale of the substances.

 

[Tojo]

In that case magistrates and law lords should all be ex convicts and the general dregs of society?

There may be a more compelling argument if the 'Judge' has successfully recovered from a substance abuse programme or rehabilitated themselves through the penal system, and would be in a better position to help rather than add to the burden of an already overwhelmed prison/punishment scenario, possibly?

 

[Tojo]

However the later has been deemed socially unacceptable by the majority of society with the danger to their users being to great to allow the legal sale of the substances.

Such is the crux of democracy, where the smallest voice that is bolstered by reason, shall be heard.

And as for the legal sale of 'substances', this is already occuring here and in other parts of the world. We have had cannabis recently downgraded to a class 'c' which places it in the same 'danger' categorisation as valium, and the like.

Where do you think we'll be in 5 years time?

 

[Plumber]

There may be a more compelling argument if the 'Judge' has successfully recovered from a substance abuse programme or rehabilitated themselves through the penal system, and would be in a better position to help rather than add to the burden of an already overwhelmed prison/punishment scenario, possibly?

By merely having been in such a position would make them wholly unsuitable to be a Judge. As for the burden on an overwhelmed prison service, build more prisons with harsher punishments.

 

[Plumber]

Such is the crux of democracy, where the smallest voice that is bolstered by reason, shall be heard.

And as for the legal sale of 'substances', this is already occuring here and in other parts of the world. We have had cannabis recently downgraded to a class 'c' which places it in the same 'danger' categorisation as valium, and the like.

Where do you think we'll be in 5 years time?

Its still illegal to sell, except under license, and with the knee jerk reaction and law making of our government cannabis is probably going to be recategorised as a Class A drug fairly soon. Especially when the side effects of this drug become more widely known.

 

[Tojo]

By merely having been in such a position would make them wholly unsuitable to be a Judge.

So you don't believe that if someone reforms, their opinions and experiences are useless? I admire the fact you're black and white on this.

As for the burden on an overwhelmed prison service, build more prisons with harsher punishments.

Where will the money come from to build this prison? Who will pay and train the staff? Where will they build them? A harder punishment makes a harder criminal, why not educate and understand?

Personally I'd rather my taxes went onto a new hospital or the like.

 

[Plumber]

So you don't believe that if someone reforms, their opinions and experiences are useless? I admire the fact you're black and white on this

Nope, I merely said that they were unfit to be a Judge. As for reformed characters they have a lot to teach people from their own first hand experiences and we have a lot to gain and understand from them. I could never be black and white on any subject I'm far too much of a wishy washy bleeding heart liberal for that.

Where will the money come from to build this prison? Who will pay and train the staff? Where will they build them? A harder punishment makes a harder criminal, why not educate and understand?

Personally I'd rather my taxes went onto a new hospital or the like.

Well you could start to find the money by cutting out the fat in the layers of government we are subjected to, stop over paying people to the tune of £2 billion worth of tax credits, slim down the welfare state to support those who truely need it, cut out the multiple layers of management in the NHS (replace management consultants with nurses), stop giving polititians huge pay rises and then maybe we could afford one of each.

What better place to re-educate offenders than in a prison, out of harms way to themselves and the rest of society? As for where to build them, how's about polititians back yards.

 

[Bluntend]

There may be a more compelling argument if the 'Judge' has successfully recovered from a substance abuse programme or rehabilitated themselves through the penal system, and would be in a better position to help rather than add to the burden of an already overwhelmed prison/punishment scenario, possibly?

Sorry Tojo but I totally disagree with the view that you are better placed to punish or treat someone if you yourself have been punished or treated in the past and for the same reasons. For example, a judge who may have had an alcohol abuse problem may be well placed to understand the effects of alchohol dependence on an individual but that alone does not qualify him on the best way to deal with or treat it in somebody else.

A judge's role is not to play a part in the rehabilitation process, it is simply to make a judgment on a crime and issue a punishment according to law. A convicted and rehabilitated offender may well be ideal at helping rehabilitate others but as far as our judicial system is concerned we should have (or at least aspire to have) judges that are whiter than white.

Lets face it, I don't beleive any one of us on here would endorse a Judge returning to work having been convicted of rape or child abuse and then 'rehabilitated' by the penal system. I doubt there would be many who would argue that his 'experience' better equips him to make a sound judgement on others.

...Tis true - my back-ground and upbringing has steered me well away from drugs and I'm sure many of the other goat users are the same - we can all look at the drug problem from our ivory tower.

Sorry, but I totally disagree with this too. I came from a broken family and was brought up by my mother who as a teacher was on a lower wage - statistically I should have gone off the rails way before my 21st birthday and should at least have a criminal record. Some of my classmates, at least two from very 'good' backgrounds, have had their lives ruined by drugs. Their stable upbringing failed to steer them away from drugs. IMHO their decision was theirs and theirs alone and they cannot lay the blame on anyone else. We all have to make choices from time to time - they made the wrong one.

 

[theladf]

Whilst not condoning the use of these substances it's usually the person who is addicted who is the victim of the greed and callousness of the drug barons and dealers. These are the people I would like to have dealt some justice with extreme prejudice. If you are caught in possession whats on you goes in you and if you survive that ordeal then you will be put away for a long time. I guess once the word gets out dealing would become a less attractive proposition. But as previously stated these so called "celebrities" could take a more responsible stance themselves instead of glamourising the drug scene. If the aforementioned punishment were dished out to the likes of that talentless oxygen thief Doherty and waste of (not much) skin Moss the gene pool would not be poorer.

 

[Tojo]

Well you could start to find the money by cutting out the fat in the layers of government we are subjected to, stop over paying people to the tune of £2 billion worth of tax credits, slim down the welfare state to support those who truely need it, cut out the multiple layers of management in the NHS (replace management consultants with nurses), stop giving polititians huge pay rises and then maybe we could afford one of each.

A sterling argument. Nice one.

 

[Tojo]

...I came from a broken family and was brought up by my mother who as a teacher was on a lower wage - statistically I should have gone off the rails way before my 21st birthday and should at least have a criminal record. Some of my classmates, at least two from very 'good' backgrounds, have had their lives ruined by drugs. Their stable upbringing failed to steer them away from drugs. IMHO their decision was theirs and theirs alone and they cannot lay the blame on anyone else. We all have to make choices from time to time - they made the wrong one.

Well said. I think that if there is an inate 'inborn' weakness in an individuals character, then they are prone to place themselves in harms way. If, however, the individual shows intelligence and fortitude, much like yourself it would seem, then you can tear up the 'rule book'.