As we are supposed to be warfighters now, and as such able to use a weapon correctly, do you therefore also think that those who can't attain the required level on the range/fail a WHT should also train in their own time - surely being able to shoot straight is necessary in our line of work?
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No need to do the RAFT anymore.
- Thread starter kev827
- Start date
As we are supposed to be warfighters now, and as such able to use a weapon correctly, do you therefore also think that those who can't attain the required level on the range/fail a WHT should also train in their own time - surely being able to shoot straight is necessary in our line of work?
D
Discombobulated
Guest
I don't agree with the 'Train in your own time' system for RAFFT failures, but a pay fall of £100 a month might encourage them a bit more, or at least reduce the 'pizza funds'.
I like to get to the gym during work time as its a good break from work, and i prefer to relax in the evenings where possible.
However, my section has a shortfall of workers recently due to OOA and postings, so i have been getting up at 6am and training before work.
I don't mind doing it as its far better than finding myself on civvie street with no income should i fail my RAFFT through lazyness.
Although i'm not able to make the light blue when i do my test, i do make a point of pushing myself to level 9.10 just to show the younger lads that if a 30yr old can do it, there is no excuse for them not to do it.
One of my biggest gripes about remedial is that fact that there is no PTI pushing or guiding the failures to do better or work harder. One of my colleuages hasn't passed in 11 yrs, and when he is on the treadmill using the TGS system he can often be found standing with feet either side of the belt as it carries on following the program, and as far as the system is concerned, he is completing the run. The truth is, he manages about half. Mandotory Curcuits would be a better option IMO.
I like to get to the gym during work time as its a good break from work, and i prefer to relax in the evenings where possible.
However, my section has a shortfall of workers recently due to OOA and postings, so i have been getting up at 6am and training before work.
I don't mind doing it as its far better than finding myself on civvie street with no income should i fail my RAFFT through lazyness.
Although i'm not able to make the light blue when i do my test, i do make a point of pushing myself to level 9.10 just to show the younger lads that if a 30yr old can do it, there is no excuse for them not to do it.
One of my biggest gripes about remedial is that fact that there is no PTI pushing or guiding the failures to do better or work harder. One of my colleuages hasn't passed in 11 yrs, and when he is on the treadmill using the TGS system he can often be found standing with feet either side of the belt as it carries on following the program, and as far as the system is concerned, he is completing the run. The truth is, he manages about half. Mandotory Curcuits would be a better option IMO.
G
GEM
Guest
themardyrigger
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Hear you loud and clear if they pass the exams set they pass out same as it's always been. And you dont recieve anyone who's has not passed the course.
You dont have to get shot of them on a FT course you and your management can start the process to get rid of them from the service full stop. The training world can only train who they recieve,and the recruiters can only recruit those who walk through the door. and It is not the sole responsibility of the training world to instill and maintain a good attitude ,it does happen to be eyeryones.
And as a supervisor your signature always states that supervison was 100% so dont get shirty that you may have to put in the same effort someone did with you when you arrived on your first posting.
fat lazy techie
Flight Sergeant
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Oh you mean SUBO, what a fine figure of a woman she is. Come on, you would, wouln't you..........
DT_Xtremez_42:FootTapper
Sergeant
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Slightly O/T - but I thought we signed for providing "adequate supervision", hence not always claiming the same man hours for supervision as claimed for the producer?
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he_who_dares_rodney
Flight Sergeant
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Why not get the names of all the nfit biffs
Publish them in orders telling them to parade at the guardroom at 06:00 in sports kit
Dosen't matter whether they are on days, nights or standown
PTI takes them for PT and then they can get showered, breakfast and carry on with what they want or get into work
Flight commanders should have to provide a reasonable excuse for no shows other wise charge them with failing to attend a parade
Monday Wednesday and Friday for two weeks with a fitness test at the end of it
Publish them in orders telling them to parade at the guardroom at 06:00 in sports kit
Dosen't matter whether they are on days, nights or standown
PTI takes them for PT and then they can get showered, breakfast and carry on with what they want or get into work
Flight commanders should have to provide a reasonable excuse for no shows other wise charge them with failing to attend a parade
Monday Wednesday and Friday for two weeks with a fitness test at the end of it
themardyrigger
LAC
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I think someone needs some training.
Maybe I do need training but after 25 years and several long look's in the JAP there is no mention of partial supervison anywhere.
But I stand by to be corrected.
The point that needs making is there are an awful lot of JNCO/SNCO who just want the easy life, If your guy's and girls cant be arsed passing the fitness test as a supervisor you have a responsibilty to motivate or maybe MAA them
DT_Xtremez_30:. Ok back to my ivory tower to read the MAFL and JAP before the 11 FT'S who failed there fitness last week test arive for me to MAA them.
S
Spammy2505
Guest
I think the "Training in your own time" is a great idea and I usually find a bit of time on a weekend to do one or two 4 mile runs with the dog.. but during the week I only get time to train in work time, I have a wife who works two evenings a week, Two school age kids who do numerous afterschool activitoes, (Brownies, Cubs, Gymnastics, Homework etc), They are fed at around 5:30pm.. bathed at 7:30 and in bed by 8pm... By that time I am naffed so would like to crash out for a while. Nobody inmy work area has any problems with anyone getting some "Sweaty Time" in as long as tghe work is getting done.
The Military requires a minimum level of fitness be maintained to continue your career.. surely granting time to reach this level is not only to be encouraged, but at most units it is mandated with either once or twice weekly CPT sessions. I attend both sessions my squadron is allocated and also train on two other days during the week, (Wednesdays off as a treat).
I have been following this regime for 11 weeks since returning to work after a Falklands Det and 4 weeks PODL which saw me gain nearly a stone in weight and flush pretty much all my fitness down the bog. I failed my fitness test, (Level 8.4), and the shame motivated me to train my a$$ off, (Litterally lost my a$$... and two stone), I subsequently pased my fitness test (Level 10.2 and light blue Push / Situps). I still train 4 times a week even though it is no longer enforced by the remedial policy.
I think a support policy for "unfit" personnel is far more conducive to gaining the required level of fitness than witholding money..... ALways prefer the carrot!
/endrant/
SpamoutDT_Xtremez_14:
The Military requires a minimum level of fitness be maintained to continue your career.. surely granting time to reach this level is not only to be encouraged, but at most units it is mandated with either once or twice weekly CPT sessions. I attend both sessions my squadron is allocated and also train on two other days during the week, (Wednesdays off as a treat).
I have been following this regime for 11 weeks since returning to work after a Falklands Det and 4 weeks PODL which saw me gain nearly a stone in weight and flush pretty much all my fitness down the bog. I failed my fitness test, (Level 8.4), and the shame motivated me to train my a$$ off, (Litterally lost my a$$... and two stone), I subsequently pased my fitness test (Level 10.2 and light blue Push / Situps). I still train 4 times a week even though it is no longer enforced by the remedial policy.
I think a support policy for "unfit" personnel is far more conducive to gaining the required level of fitness than witholding money..... ALways prefer the carrot!
/endrant/
Spamout
DT_Xtremez_14:
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Think back to life before the fitness test...Was it so bad?
People did their jobs and aircraft got airborne...ops such as GW1 were carried out satis and if it happened I must have missed the avalanche of non-fitness tested people dying because they couldn't do shuttles...People mostly were still in shape and did sport/gym time...line managers weren't preoccupied with FT trivia when they should have been devoting their time to stuff like fixing jets and ensuring stuff was available for all...
In essence all the FT has done has increased an already busy and undermanned force's workload...The only winners out of this deal are the muscle techs who now have more power than they know what to do with...
People will be what they want to be...A large majority of us keep reasonably fit anyway and those that don't live with it on a daily basis and probably don't like themselves a great deal for that reason...Without creating this admin nightmare that drains sections of workers losing 1000's of man hours a year we could just have been encouraged to make sure the people that needed the encouragement got it by being effective NCO's and SNCO's...
Its an over complication IMO...
People did their jobs and aircraft got airborne...ops such as GW1 were carried out satis and if it happened I must have missed the avalanche of non-fitness tested people dying because they couldn't do shuttles...People mostly were still in shape and did sport/gym time...line managers weren't preoccupied with FT trivia when they should have been devoting their time to stuff like fixing jets and ensuring stuff was available for all...
In essence all the FT has done has increased an already busy and undermanned force's workload...The only winners out of this deal are the muscle techs who now have more power than they know what to do with...
People will be what they want to be...A large majority of us keep reasonably fit anyway and those that don't live with it on a daily basis and probably don't like themselves a great deal for that reason...Without creating this admin nightmare that drains sections of workers losing 1000's of man hours a year we could just have been encouraged to make sure the people that needed the encouragement got it by being effective NCO's and SNCO's...
Its an over complication IMO...
Quite a few units now have fitness parades for ft fails, 3 times a week sometimes in work times sometimes not seems to be roughly what happens.
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Maybe I do need training but after 25 years and several long look's in the JAP there is no mention of partial supervison anywhere.
But I stand by to be corrected.
The point that needs making is there are an awful lot of JNCO/SNCO who just want the easy life, If your guy's and girls cant be arsed passing the fitness test as a supervisor you have a responsibilty to motivate or maybe MAA them
Ok back to my ivory tower to read the MAFL and JAP before the 11 FT'S who failed there fitness last week test arive for me to MAA them.
As far as 1st line Armouring goes (Harriers), only work on the AAES is 100% supervised. Everything else is 50% unless it's a special case (training, new fit etc)
M
monobrow
Guest
Yes you do...
Note 1 under the responsibilities of 2nd signature. -> http://www.jap100a-01.mod.uk/Jap(d)/JAP 100A 01 Chap 4.3.2.htm#_Toc234230282
That, IMO, is about the most common sense post about the subject I have read and should be force fed to the uber hierarchy.
mib stacker
LAC
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Wish I could have put it as well-nicely said
he_who_dares_rodney
Flight Sergeant
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I agree with Vim's post however
Was the Airforce fitter back then generally?
I rememer palying football almost every night either out on the pitches or 5 a side in the gym
It was organised and the camps had leagues etc the NCO's played and encouraged everyone to come aolong
Then a pint after
First fitness test I ever did was at Witering in 1990 mile and a half round the track IIRC the carot was you didn't get a detachment if you couldn't pass it
In 204 when I went back in for Iraq the HCR barracks at Windsor was deserted after tea due to playing playstations etc
They can even hook up rom to room now to play each other
Fitness and football seemed to be done on work time only
Also times have moved on we can point out that we have been getting aircraft up to smite thine flying enemies for 90 years
But and it's a big but someone somewhere has introduced a fitness test and stated it needs to be done so someway has to be found to get people through it
Was the Airforce fitter back then generally?
I rememer palying football almost every night either out on the pitches or 5 a side in the gym
It was organised and the camps had leagues etc the NCO's played and encouraged everyone to come aolong
Then a pint after
First fitness test I ever did was at Witering in 1990 mile and a half round the track IIRC the carot was you didn't get a detachment if you couldn't pass it
In 204 when I went back in for Iraq the HCR barracks at Windsor was deserted after tea due to playing playstations etc
They can even hook up rom to room now to play each other
Fitness and football seemed to be done on work time only
Also times have moved on we can point out that we have been getting aircraft up to smite thine flying enemies for 90 years
But and it's a big but someone somewhere has introduced a fitness test and stated it needs to be done so someway has to be found to get people through it
OK..Igiveup
Corporal
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the good old days
the good old days
I think we all agree the whole clampdown is balls.
We all did the job before and we all had time for a game of five a side on a wednesday afternoon or over lunchtime and we all walked to work from the block and usually had a walk to the mess for our tea.
We all managed to go on a few Expeds and we all played squash of an evening.
Now. I drive to work, I couldn't get 5 people together let alone get time off to play football. The parking at the mess is overflowing (from what I see as I drive home for my lunch/tea)
What's an exped? and the squash courts are too far from my house and everybody is busy at home anyway.
We still do our job's I still go away, I still do my share of Guards/duties.
But I can't run! Just can't do it! never have probably never will. I will try and god I have tried over the years and have been in considerable pain in the process and have several things that will never be right again.
But I show a bad attitude to fitness so I will be kicked out.... after years and years of loyal dedicated service.
Well thank you..... but I may just see you in court
the good old days
I think we all agree the whole clampdown is balls.
We all did the job before and we all had time for a game of five a side on a wednesday afternoon or over lunchtime and we all walked to work from the block and usually had a walk to the mess for our tea.
We all managed to go on a few Expeds and we all played squash of an evening.
Now. I drive to work, I couldn't get 5 people together let alone get time off to play football. The parking at the mess is overflowing (from what I see as I drive home for my lunch/tea)
What's an exped? and the squash courts are too far from my house and everybody is busy at home anyway.
We still do our job's I still go away, I still do my share of Guards/duties.
But I can't run! Just can't do it! never have probably never will. I will try and god I have tried over the years and have been in considerable pain in the process and have several things that will never be right again.
But I show a bad attitude to fitness so I will be kicked out.... after years and years of loyal dedicated service.
Well thank you..... but I may just see you in court
indeed, mate. This like many other rule changes they have brought in, is ill thought, and made on a whim. They powers that be think, because you wear a blue suit, they can do what they want. Mostly, yes they can, but when that decision is made, which terminates your contract, then it is a different matter. I would challenge any military law official to win on this one. One call to my solicitor would have them running. Lets look at it. I have been in now for 20 years, at least 10 of it, they let me pretty much do what i want as far as fitness, then they decide to bring in a test.
then they decide to up the levels, then decide to up the testing intervals. All this, whilst not increasing the backup, and training, and support. In the last 12 months, how many compulsary fitness sessions have I been offered in works time? NONE!
This fitness rule seems to me to smack of the old Pregnancy, or Gay issue. The MOD say, NO you are not allowed, but it takes one persion to challenge it in court, and they back down. This will be the same. IT will take one person they discharge who decides to fight it, and they will change it again.