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I wish I was on 60k, unfortunately mate I am nowhere near that !
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The civilians are coming!
- Thread starter ninjarabbi
- Start date
I wish I was on 60k, unfortunately mate I am nowhere near that !
True Blue Jack
Warrant Officer
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You sure about that? Even if you include the cost of food, accommodation, medical and dental treatment, uniform and all the people who have to be employed to provide those things? What if he has 2 kids which he sends to boarding school? What about the cost of training up a new cpl every couple of years. What about the loss of productivity when said cpl goes OOA?
Civilianisation is an easy way to make short term savings. With a £20Bn black hole in the Defence budget these kinds of savings will have to be made. As for the long term costs...well that's for another planning round, someone else's problem.
FILTHYRIGGER
LAC
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£60 000 - Ha ha Ha. Who gets that ? You would need to be a Group Captain equivilant to reach that sort of money. After 13 years as a Flt Lt equiv I get £25 600. And before you start I know I do not do a Flt Lts job, only a Chf Techs ! And the starting pay is currently about £16 000. SACT don't look so poorly off now.
And Musicians do go OOA. They are trained to act as;
stretcher bearers/medical orderlies/ drivers among other tasks.
Don't know about Cartographers though. I'm sure that someone will know.
J
JPA_H8r
Guest
FILTHYRIGGER FILTHYRIGGER is online now
Line Swine
FILTHYRIGGER£60 000 - Ha ha Ha. Who gets that ? You would need to be a Group Captain equivilant to reach that sort of money. After 13 years as a Flt Lt equiv I get £25 600. And before you start I know I do not do a Flt Lts job, only a Chf Techs ! And the starting pay is currently about £16 000. SACT don't look so poorly off now.
And Musicians do go OOA. They are trained to act as;
stretcher bearers/medical orderlies/ drivers among other tasks.
Don't know about Cartographers though. I'm sure that someone will know.
Why do we need a band in the RAF or the forces? be fair FFS, what a waste of public money, "Oh they double over as stretcher bearers" were all in the military we all know how to carry a stretcher, what a waste of money,
And as for being on £26500 as a Flt LT i wouldn't get out of bed for that and im an SAC(T)
DT_Xtremez_40:
Line Swine
FILTHYRIGGER£60 000 - Ha ha Ha. Who gets that ? You would need to be a Group Captain equivilant to reach that sort of money. After 13 years as a Flt Lt equiv I get £25 600. And before you start I know I do not do a Flt Lts job, only a Chf Techs ! And the starting pay is currently about £16 000. SACT don't look so poorly off now.
And Musicians do go OOA. They are trained to act as;
stretcher bearers/medical orderlies/ drivers among other tasks.
Don't know about Cartographers though. I'm sure that someone will know.
Why do we need a band in the RAF or the forces? be fair FFS, what a waste of public money, "Oh they double over as stretcher bearers" were all in the military we all know how to carry a stretcher, what a waste of money,
And as for being on £26500 as a Flt LT i wouldn't get out of bed for that and im an SAC(T)
DT_Xtremez_40:Ex-Splitter and Proud
Flight Sergeant
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And as for being on £26500 as a Flt LT i wouldn't get out of bed for that and im an SAC(T)
He didn't say he was a Flt Lt... he said "Flt Lt equiv".
Firstly, if you did a bit of digging, I think you'd discover that he's referring to his being a Band D civil serpent - and the pay he's quoting is the MoD's rate for a Band D with his time in service, etc.
We could argue until hell freezes over regarding whether that really means he's a Flt Lt equivalent - personally speaking, the grading structure doesn't fit, never fitted and never will.
The bottom line is that Filthyrigger (like many others - myself included) got suckered by some skillful Grade Manager type of 'real' civil servant (Grade A b4st4rd) when he was recruited. The MoD (like most of the defence industry) know that Chiefs, Flt Sgts, etc, etc, often fancy working in the same location/working environment on burning their blue suits and F1250s and that they probably have a service pension (generally speaking). The clever people in the HR higher paid help brigade sussed that years ago and set salaries to suit. You tend to find that ex-Chiefs, etc get recruited at Band D or thereabouts, probably because people will accept this - for their own personal reasons.
That's the beauty of a capitalist society - market forces!
Those that won't accpet that kind of money will go elsewhere and take the risks of being a conny, etc.
Having said that, JPA_H8r, it's very easy to scoff and ridicule people who openly discuss their salaries, but you might find yourself eating those words one day. So, whilst you consider (now) that you wouldn't get out of bed for his kind of money.....
.... one day, you might find little opportunity to do otherwise.
DT_Xtremez_42:
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And as for being on £26500 as a Flt LT i wouldn't get out of bed for that and im an SAC(T)
Well looking at the pay scales the most you're on as an SAC(T) is £28,372 which broken down and roughly after tax equates to £117 a month more for you. just enough to buy yourself a new bed to get out of!
Well looking at the pay scales the most you're on as an SAC(T) is £28,372 which broken down and roughly after tax equates to £117 a month more for you. just enough to buy yourself a new bed to get out of!
G
goatblower
Guest
Hmmm,
Reading this with interest.
The RAF philosophy nowadays to try and promote partnering with Industry, and let them become the 'producers' to achieve mission success or availability targets. This arrangement means that the blue suits can concentrate on 1st line work, ergo the 2/3rd line support is contractorised.
However you swing it, a contractor will always be cheaper to employ, like for like, than a blue suit. Also, the added advantage that they rarely go sick (no pay), rarely go on leave (no pay) and are generally ex-forces and very good at the job. A contractor does not have to spend time away from the workface on CCS, guard, parades and therefore on an hourly rate basis is proably more effecient than his blue suit equivilant.
There are downside of course, no 'harmony' 2nd line posts, increased guards for the blue suits and more time away. But as we all signed on the dotted line we can, apparently, take a joke or 3.
Like it or not, this will be happening to reduce the RAF overheads and also to get support concepts for new aircraft funded. Passing off the costs of recruitment, training and contiunuance training to you industrial partner is always cheaper than doing it yourself.
Goat.
Reading this with interest.
The RAF philosophy nowadays to try and promote partnering with Industry, and let them become the 'producers' to achieve mission success or availability targets. This arrangement means that the blue suits can concentrate on 1st line work, ergo the 2/3rd line support is contractorised.
However you swing it, a contractor will always be cheaper to employ, like for like, than a blue suit. Also, the added advantage that they rarely go sick (no pay), rarely go on leave (no pay) and are generally ex-forces and very good at the job. A contractor does not have to spend time away from the workface on CCS, guard, parades and therefore on an hourly rate basis is proably more effecient than his blue suit equivilant.
There are downside of course, no 'harmony' 2nd line posts, increased guards for the blue suits and more time away. But as we all signed on the dotted line we can, apparently, take a joke or 3.
Like it or not, this will be happening to reduce the RAF overheads and also to get support concepts for new aircraft funded. Passing off the costs of recruitment, training and contiunuance training to you industrial partner is always cheaper than doing it yourself.
Goat.
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It is not necessarily all about being cheaper, with or without support. Equate instead to looking towards employnig a prostitute and several cleaners and a cook, who you can dismiss tomorrow if you don't need them, against marrying a woman (however sluttish, fastidious and capable), who you cannot.
Ex-Splitter and Proud
Flight Sergeant
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And I'm guessing that Filthyrigger probably pockets about £10 - 12K before he even wakes up, let alone before he thinks about getting out of bed for that other £26.5K - so as long as his quality of life is ok, I'll wager that he's just about satisfied with his conditions
DT_Xtremez_30:
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Agree with previous post re RAF Hospitals. Musicians, well, do away with them by all means, however, who would provide music at repatriation ceremonies? Has the poster ever attended a homecoming parade for any of the Squadrons? Perhaps we could book the local disco.
Currently there are less than 200 Civil Servants at Europes largest military garrison. In 1963 there were over 3000. The move of personnel to DSDA DSG, the contractorisation of catering, cleaning, MT, and the invention of DHE have all removed people from direct government employment, although still dependant on the government for work.
Currently there are less than 200 Civil Servants at Europes largest military garrison. In 1963 there were over 3000. The move of personnel to DSDA DSG, the contractorisation of catering, cleaning, MT, and the invention of DHE have all removed people from direct government employment, although still dependant on the government for work.
I'm a liar
SAC
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Today we could replace 80 - 90% of the RAF with civilian contractors. Tomorrow we can't. We don't know what is on the horizon.
The Green paper is steering us all the way to joint ops with Euro forces (doubt if Greece will join in as they have slightly more money than we do). Share A400Ms, JSF, Rivet Joint, Aircraft Carriers.
We have, in my 30+ years always planned and trained for future conflicts. We no longer can, as we do not have enough people to hold this training.
I have children at Boarding School, I have a pension coming, and I’ve just had all my teeth crowned. Get the most you can before our lords and masters sale us down the proverbial swanie.
The Green paper is steering us all the way to joint ops with Euro forces (doubt if Greece will join in as they have slightly more money than we do). Share A400Ms, JSF, Rivet Joint, Aircraft Carriers.
We have, in my 30+ years always planned and trained for future conflicts. We no longer can, as we do not have enough people to hold this training.
I have children at Boarding School, I have a pension coming, and I’ve just had all my teeth crowned. Get the most you can before our lords and masters sale us down the proverbial swanie.