American Hero?

[Shugster]

I have to say I admire this chap for standing up for what he believes in.

He is in the US Forces and should do as he is ordered, but I think governments forget that a Serviceman has to believe in what he is fighting for...

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7951403.stm

Good for you mate! DT_Xtremez_26:

 

[broadsword]

...but I think governments forget that a Serviceman has to believe in what he is fighting for...

Where does that little nugget of wisdom come from? I would disagree entirely.

And I think this fellas future hinges on this:

His case rests on a European Union law guaranteeing refugee status to soldiers who might be prosecuted for desertion if military service involves violating international law.

I'm not up on the latest developments with the legal status of the war so I could be talking out of my hoop when I say that I don't think it is officially an illegal war just yet.

 

[Nec Aspera Terrent]

What an arse!

Why didn't he just leave the Service? When you join you agree to be a pawn of foreign and domestic policy, if you can't do that for reasons of conscience, it's time to find a new job.

None of us is forced to serve.

 

[Pikeman]

I thought good old Bush had declared the war in Iraq was over and we were now peace keeping. The guy joined up, took the pay and the postings and now he's been asked to pay the bill he's done a runner.

Desertion in the face of the enemy, shoot him.

I'm wondering if there is any more to it, probably some hippies have been talking to him in the bar cause he's got nae mates.

 

[JAFAD666]

More likely he was loved up with frauline and thought that 6 months away would mean one of his mates would be in there. So he shacked up with her for 2 years while he came up with a cunning plan.

Lets get back to some basics tho ... all Americans are wrong whatever they do.

 

[Shugster]

Where does that little nugget of wisdom come from? I would disagree entirely.

And I think this fellas future hinges on this:



I'm not up on the latest developments with the legal status of the war so I could be talking out of my hoop when I say that I don't think it is officially an illegal war just yet.

But as c0ck all WMDs were ever found it had no real foundation other than CIA, "Hearsay", and Blairs' desire to shove his tongue up, "Dubyas'" ar5e. Do you think the dead UK / US and even Iraqi servicemen have died for a good cause?

That little nugget comes from him being someone who actually does something rather than sits in a crewroom talking about what he would do.

 

[Shugster]

OK. Thanks to FOMz we now have a poll to get an idea of what people think.

Please don't vote as a, "Serviceman", (Because we all know that we follow orders), but as an ordinary joe off the straße! ie. What you would choose if you had the choice.

Edit: This refers to Iraq only BTW. The 'Stan is another subject entirely.

 

[Weebl]

Voted 'Traitor' which I think is a bit strong but I lean more that way than 'standing up for what he believes in'

I would have to know a few more details as well ideally, like were US forces involved in the war when he joined up, did he wait until he was due to go back before deserting (if it was pure conscience he should have made his stand immediately upon returning the first time)

He cuffed off the job he had voluntarily taken on, and received the benefits of, and let somebody else do the tour he was supposed to serve.

 

[Shugster]

Thanks Weebl.

A balanced post presenting both sides, which is what I was after.

 

[GD on Wheels]

How long has it been since the Gw2? Six years or so. And it has taken this long to wise up to the fact it was a bit dodgy to say the least.

But all said and done you take the Queens shilling or Dime in his case and you go where you are told to."There go I but to do and die" I think the saying goes. So in my mind he is a traitor for the simple fact some poor guy has to take his place,and could die in his place while he lords it up in Germany. A country not renowned for its fighting sprit these days.

 

[metimmee]

The RAF doc' who did a similar thing didn't get much sympathy on these pages.

 

[BillyBunter]

I cannot vote as I dont know . His country will never let him forget that actions , one team one fight and all that , but he has a valid point maybe how much the government brainwash troops to do what they think is right when clearly its never been. He cant be seen to be a scape goat and will be punished to stop others doing it again. That is society these days and thats what you really sign on the dotted line for even though its not written in contract

 

[gemarriott]

I'm sorry but when you sign on the dotted line you do as you are fcuking told until either you get out or you go to jail for being a cnut! It is as straight forward as that.

I disagree with the war in Iraq, I always have and it is for people like me outside the Forces now to let the Government know their actions are wrong. It is also up to people like me to try to reassure those of you still doing the work in these unpopular wars that our respect for for our servicemen/women is not in any way diminished because you are fighting an unpopular war.

It is possible to support the Forces without supporting the wars, you simply target the politicians with your protests and turn up to cheer the parades.

Unfortunately or should that be thankfully when you are in the mob you just get on with it, it is called doing your duty!

 

[steve_k243]

Far too much of the asylum seeking business out there now.
Think I'll chance my arm in The Maldives or Seychelles at the next opportunity.DT_Xtremez_19:

Obviously the ****** should have done a Seppo equivalent of a PVR
on his return from tour 1.
If his bid fails (asylum and no doubt race card) I would hope a move to Leavenworth will be in order.

 

[broadsword]

But as c0ck all WMDs were ever found it had no real foundation other than CIA, "Hearsay", and Blairs' desire to shove his tongue up, "Dubyas'" ar5e. Do you think the dead UK / US and even Iraqi servicemen have died for a good cause?

That little nugget comes from him being someone who actually does something rather than sits in a crewroom talking about what he would do.

Doesn't matter what I think. I'm just pondering the legal position he is hanging his hat on.

Not sure what you're second point is.

 

[Shugster]

Doesn't matter what I think. I'm just pondering the legal position he is hanging his hat on.

Not sure what you're second point is.

There are Millions of, "Talkers", in the World but only a handfull of, "Do-ers".

 

[Bitburger]

Traitor in my view, he took the pay, he should do the job. Not only that but did the USA sent one less because he did not turn up for the 'party'? Did they fcuk some other poor tw@t had to go to cover his place.

 

[steve_k243]

Wonder where we would all be if this tossers attitude was around in 1805-1914-1939 etc etc

 

[broadsword]

There are Millions of, "Talkers", in the World but only a handfull of, "Do-ers".

Yeah, I got that bit Shugster mate but, in the context of your statement 'but I think governments forget that a Serviceman has to believe in what he is fighting for...', it doesn't make sense.

Like many have said here already, you take the shilling, you do what's asked of you. If you have any morality issues, you leave the service.

Although, I think 'traitor' is a bit harsh, so I haven't voted...

 

[R_Squared]

Gem's post sums it up pretty much for me.

Whilst serving it is your Duty to do as ordered. Once you leave it is your Duty to vote, thus shaping the Nation's policy.

As servicemen, we agree to suspend some of our 'rights' in order to serve our Nation. If we then decide we cannot do what we are asked, we leave, but in the normal way, doing your duty until the day you are released.

If you cannot do that, then you are in direct breach of your contract with Her Majesty, and should be treated appropriately.

As Weebl said, I think traitor is too strong a word, but I can't really agree with what this chap did. I can understand why he did it, I just happen to think that what he did was wrong.