Free Uni when we leave!

[Natural_Wastage]

So, when someone has left the RAF, what courses should they be able to do then? Something to benefit the force they have just left??????

Outside of the resettlement phase it should be of benefit to the individuals trade/branch if RAF money/days off are involved. During the resettlement phase (and obviously post that in the case of ELC's) whatever the individual wishes on the condition that the resettlement bods agree it's a the right level/approved provider etc...

Any bachelor degree course is deemed to 'advance' the RAF, as the high level of thinking, reasoning and study methods that are incorporated by an individual can be carried over into the workplace.

Fair enough. As I stated, it should be a period of study revelant to the individual. If the RAF view any degree as relevant than fair enough. I don't know what the exact rules are at present but I was under the impression that you couldn't just pick any academic subject at random and get RAF money and days off. Would I get a day off each week to study sports science? I very much doubt it.

I guess that you haven't taken up the opportunity yourself?
Is this the reason why you are whinging about something that is freely available to you and everyone, but are a little too lazy to study perhaps? Try it, it's tough to juggle everything, home and work life et al. but you can't moan about others when the same is offered to you.

I think you've completely misunderstood my posts or I've not been clear enough. I've so far said that people have no excuse for not gaining quals whilst in the RAF other than that they do not wish to. I also pointed out that I didn't think of the people as lazy.

" I'm not saying that people who don't are lazy or whatever, just that they have chosen themselves not to study."

I'm clearly not whinging about it. I'm just putting forward my view that the RAF is correct to restrict what can be studied and at what level to people who are not on resettlement (leaving out the post-RAF as this is only applicable to ELC registered people at present).

There's no need to start throwing childish insults about. I'm not whinging or lazy and there are many others in the world apart from yourself who have to juggle things around in their life!

As an aside, I only claim £170 SLC, saving the ELC for when I'm out and my course is a lot more than your quoted £610 History degree. The rest comes out of my pocket.

Many people do. And many course are more expensive, it was only one example of an 'average' price. An ex colleague self funded an ATPL. Much Much more expensive than £600! Some people do basic numeracy or literacy. They may pay little or nothing. It's all irrelevant. It's purely the RAF contribution under discussion.

 

[Mug?]

Moving on?

Moving on?

I seem to recall reading that Nurses do a degree now and also teachers need a degree so why don't we get to do one?

Does anyone know the rules about us junior scum having letters after our name? A lad at an old unit was told he was not able to use his BSc after his name cos he was not an officer.

There was the old scheme of Q-AFT but died out

 

[T93]

I seem to recall reading that Nurses do a degree now and also teachers need a degree so why don't we get to do one?

Does anyone know the rules about us junior scum having letters after our name? A lad at an old unit was told he was not able to use his BSc after his name cos he was not an officer.

There was the old scheme of Q-AFT but died out

****

Surely he contested the above? (in bold) I know I would have.

 

[Natural_Wastage]

There are a few non-commissioned trades which have degrees as part of the training. Radiographer is one, nurse I'm guessing is another. I think the WSOP's get a foundation degree now.

An old colleague had a geography degree and when he was a Cosford on his SAC(T) course a very jumped up flying officer wrote letters after his name on a written warning (or something like that - can't remember the exact reason) to which my mate responded by signing the paperwork 'AC A.N.OTHER BA(Hons)'. The young zob was absolutely furious and demanded he remove it. Can't remember the outcome but as he was in training I'm sure the zob won! DT_Xtremez_30:

In my mates case he was obviously being his usual antagonistic self. In real life I can't think when a JR would need to use letters after his/her name... To be fair (IMO) degree's have been devalued to a point where having letters after your name means little. Unless they're some pretty weighty ones like MEng, PhD and the like I doubt many would be impressed these days. For crying out loud there's two AMM's where I work with degree's!

I seem to recall reading that Nurses do a degree now and also teachers need a degree so why don't we get to do one?

Probably because your trade training isn't in depth enough. I do think it would be nice to see more continuity in training for technical trades which would eventually lead to a degree. For example I would like to love to see the following route for a/c techs;

Basic FLM course - Quick intro to being a liney. Nice'n'quick - C&G

FT Course - Learn to be a techie, basic fault diagnosis, hand skills etc - BTEC NC

Distance Learning HNC Package - Extra modules to top up the NC needed for promotion to SNCO

SNCO Course - Extra period of learning concentrating on deeper fault diagnosis, paperwork, man management etc. Scrap IMLC and merge it into this. Come off the course with HND.

HND to Foundation Degree/Degree to up - Can be done if wanted. Needed for promotion to WO. High flyers perfect for Commissioning to Eng Branch.


Ok, so people may argue over various points and it may not be the best way, but my main point is that it would be great to have an ongoing academic process. It would produce some fine SNCO Engineers and would provide rich pickings for Cranwell. Also, the scheme allows for people who are switch on to advance rapidly instead of waiting around as a JR/CPL for 15 years because that's how long it might take to get to SNCO. If someone is good enough to be a SNCO at 25 then let them be one. Best man for the job and all that.

 

[Mug?]

I read a lot

I read a lot

As an aside I read somewhere about the 6000 that a person on private study (ie OU or day release) should not be penilised in his annual appraisal for not concentrating fully on his primary task.
I hit the roof when i thought I may have suffered for trying to benefit myself and hence the service by studying in my own time/ on night shift/ while OOA. i was always told it was a good thing.


Natural_wastage. you seem to be re-inventing the wheel with your ideas.

 

[Tubby]

I can't think when a JR would need to use letters after his/her name...


I can, because they bloody earned it. Thats the attitude that devalues a degree, admittidley they could be utilsing thier quals better but each to thier own eh.

 

[gemarriott]

****

Surely he contested the above? (in bold) I know I would have.

In the 15 years of being able to use BSc, MBCS after my name the only time I ever did was to p1ss an old mate off when I finally got back intouch with him.

 

[chiefy]

In the 15 years of being able to use BSc, MBCS after my name the only time I ever did was to p1ss an old mate off when I finally got back intouch with him.

Post nominals are a name suffix, ie. they follow your name so that others know more about you. I have an alphabet after my name thanks to a good education and membership of some expensive but useful professional bodies but I wouldn't put them all on my business card and I certainly wouldn't put them in an e-mail or letter. The general concensus is that one's relevant to your profession are illustrated on business cards so that clients etc have some confidence in your abilities, probably the only place you'd see all of them is on a CV or a letter to a mate who you wished to let know you had done well DT_Xtremez_15:

Incidentally, no-one can make you remove a post-(or pre)nominal that you have earnt and are entitled to, if you are a Dr. then there is no reason why you couldn't be Sgt Dr. Bloggs. Likewise no-one can make you put them before or after your name, I've a friend with an MBE who refuses to place it after his name, occifers are forever getting uptight about it and yet he also has an MSc and when he puts that after his name they get equally uptight.

 

[Skeedledee]

now call me synical, call me sceptical but dont call me gullible! I have learned the hard way that if it sounds to good to be true it usually is. I mean where is this money coming from? Defence budget I reckon. This government does not excactly inspire me with confidence, there must be a catch.

 

[metimmee]

Incidentally, no-one can make you remove a post-(or pre)nominal that you have earnt and are entitled to, if you are a Dr. then there is no reason why you couldn't be Sgt Dr. Bloggs. Likewise no-one can make you put them before or after your name, I've a friend with an MBE who refuses to place it after his name, occifers are forever getting uptight about it and yet he also has an MSc and when he puts that after his name they get equally uptight.

Must be one of those folklore tales then. I was also told that only commissioned ranks could use post-nominals. I heard a story of a FS who was told to take them off the sign off his door. His solution; saw the BSc off the end of the sign and place it 3 inches to the right DT_Xtremez_30:

 

[radrob]

Now I'm normally all for milking the damn RAF for every penny available but I don't believe individuals should be allowed to study what they want (on the Air Forces tab) outside of resettlement.

Why should the RAF fund people to study whatever they want? They have a duty to help people resettle and obtain decent employment when leaving but do they have a duty to aid someone to get say a history degree?

A level 2 course for a history degree at the OU is approx £610 a year. That's £50ish spread over twelve months. £50! If someone can't sacrifice the equivalent of a meal for two and drinks (or three pints and some crisps in the Benson area) to study then how motivated are they for f's sake?!

Could you imagine approaching a civvie employer and asking them to fund a course in an area totally unrelated to the job and of no benefit to the employer? Not likely to happen!

Whilst I get your point mate it`s not so much the £50 a month although the value of that will vary depending on whether you are an SAC or Chief for example. We OU peeps show huge committment by slogging through books after family time to better ourselves. As for related degrees would an engineering degree make me wield a spanner more effectively ? - don`t think so. A degree shows a standard of cognitive capability, of assembling evidence, creating an argument around a research question and re-examining evidence in light of said findings. It doesn`t make me a better techie. I`m studying Psychology which has work applications but I would never be so bold as to claim it`s for the mobs beneift just as any engineering degree wouldn`t truely benefit my employers. A bit more financial help would be sweet especially as next years course is over a grand!
The last gripe is although I`m doing one degree I cannot pay for several modules hence using ELC`s would be like burning money.
Anyway where`s me coffee?