Pvr

[darth510]

This topic has probably been covered a thousand times, but.... is it just me or are the PVR rates rocketing, we must of had at leat 6 decent blokes from my shift alone PVR this year!!! leaving us very short of man power and experience, i must admit i was 22 years from day one, but nowadays i start to wonder, how are the rest of you doing?

 

[BillyBunter]

Well i thought of PVR ing but with 5 years left to do i would be silly giving away a pension that is the last good thing the Military gave.
But ill be honest i left school and joined RAF , 18 years down the line ive enjoyed every moment untill the last few years , if they could give us some (some i say loosely ) manpower back , get rid of station duties as we have nobody left to do it , then that will go a long way to helping the cause at our station and if they done that I would sign on further and think ive got a career worth persuing , right now i dont feel that way or have any interest of staying in. We really need a break and something to help as we really need positive attitudes rather than negatives. My biggest fear where i work right now is everything is a rush job to provide for planners , we are being pushed to provide things we simply cannot do with manpower, and when we do things to get what planners want there is that increasing risk thats something is going to go wrong , with many years like all of us in the job accidents and errors will not go away or stop , we are just basically increasing that chance of it happening again , nobody really is interested and its a very worrying situation in my view.

 

[Shortie]

I'm in the same position as BillyBunter here, just less than 5 years to do untill Pension. A few years ago I would have thought I had a job for life in the RAF as I really enjoyed it. Now-a-days I think our Trade Sponsors have destroyed us (Ex TG3 to TG4) Trade issues aside, there is just no morale or the same feeling of loyalty anymore. To be honest I'm just not "enjoying" life in the RAF anymore, which for me, personally, is a crying shame. With respects to PVR's in the section, not at the moment, but at least 1 person is activly looking for another job, whilst the majority of NCO's are rapidly approaching their 22 year point with no sign of promotion or a desire to accept promotion if it was offered.

Very sad.DT_Xtremez_09:

 

[Sospan]

This topic has probably been covered a thousand times, but.... is it just me or are the PVR rates rocketing, we must of had at leat 6 decent blokes from my shift alone PVR this year!!! leaving us very short of man power and experience, i must admit i was 22 years from day one, but nowadays i start to wonder, how are the rest of you doing?

Here are the official stats have a look at table 8, it gives details or voluntary outflow from trained strength. It has steadily risen to 5% from 3.4% 10 years ago. Thats if you can believe it !!!

If you then look at table 16 the application figures have been withdrawn due to JPA.

 

[Joe_90]

Ten years ago as an SAC I remember when one of the other SACs PVRd it was a big thing and everyone from the boss down tried to talk him out of it. In the past year alone in my current Section we have seen five SACs leave and another who should be on resettlement but he has to complete his DWR first. Admittedly that is between two trades but in my trade we have lost seven Q'op SACs when you take into account postings as well and they've been replaced by two Q'op and one LAC. We are scaled for less than twenty lads from the Chief down so you can see how big a hole that leaves in our manpower. This only makes the problem worse as they are told when they join up that they can do all sorts of expeds and sports, when actually if they were allowed to do half of what they are promised then the Section would grind to a halt.
I do think that part of the problem is the SAC(T) system. When I was at my five year point I was starting my fitters course, I had a whole new part of my career ahead of me so I was going to stay. As a mech I was qualified for f*** all and I knew it so the RAF was the best for me. Now the guys come through eighteen months at Saints, which is a hell hole of the highest order nowadays as they wont spend money on it because of the new superschool. They get to me and complete an NVQ and they can go and get the jobs it took the likes of us nine or ten years to be qualified for within three and a half years of joining up. If I was in the same boat I'd be off as well.

 

[MrMasher]

My brother has put in his PVR. He's done nearly 8 years but only 6 count because he was 16 when he joined.
He had to go and have a chat with his boss.
What struck me as wrong was that his boss didnt even try to persuade him to stay in.
I didnt know until after he had put in his PVR. That said I dont know if I would have been able to persuade him to stay in either! The supply system seem to have run out of mk1 carrots for the end of the sticks!

 

[duffman]

''and get the jobs it took the likes of us nine or ten years to be qualified for within three and a half years of joining up. ''

Got to now, the raf's competing in a crowded job market you can't say to people who are going to join up, you'll be a mech for 9 years then you might become a tech, no ones going to go for it.

The raf and the gov realise that you need to offer qualifications now to appeal to people.

 

[mememe]

My brother has put in his PVR. He's done nearly 8 years but only 6 count because he was 16 when he joined.
He had to go and have a chat with his boss.
What struck me as wrong was that his boss didnt even try to persuade him to stay in.
I didnt know until after he had put in his PVR. That said I dont know if I would have been able to persuade him to stay in either! The supply system seem to have run out of mk1 carrots for the end of the sticks!

Why should the boss even try persuade him to stay. They have no power to offer/guaruntee any improvement/financial incentive/promotion...perhaps unlike civi organisations. I for one have never tried to talk anyone out of going..it is their decision, which should be an informed one. Personnel who leave like this have my respect as ultimately it is a big decision on their part and perhaps I have a hint of jelousy as I never had the balls to do it a few years ago.If not, and it is knee jerk to a bad day or an attempt at black mail then probably the time is right to try something new. On the latter re the black mail, I keep the PVR forms on my desk top, stop the person talking, print them off and the only other words spoken will be, "sign here".

 

[Realist78]

Here are the official stats have a look at table 8, it gives details or voluntary outflow from trained strength. It has steadily risen to 5% from 3.4% 10 years ago. Thats if you can believe it !!!

If you then look at table 16 the application figures have been withdrawn due to JPA.

One important stat that it won't tell you is how many people are turning down LOS30 and leaving at the 22 year point.:raf:

 

[Sospan]

One important stat that it won't tell you is how many people are turning down LOS30 and leaving at the 22 year point.:raf:

Do you think they will ever do anything about it ? I cant see people changing their mind on this matter unless there is a serious policy shift.

 

[MrMasher]

Why should the boss even try persuade him to stay. ".

I cant believe you asked that!
Ultimately your boss should be the one to make sure you are making the correct decision and he should be the one who does try to put the RAF forwards as a career. He is one of your career managers after all.
If we dont convince people to stay in and maybe offer them a different post or outlook then we as a force will be bu66ered before long.

 

[mememe]

I cant believe you asked that!
Ultimately your boss should be the one to make sure you are making the correct decision and he should be the one who does try to put the RAF forwards as a career. He is one of your career managers after all.
If we dont convince people to stay in and maybe offer them a different post or outlook then we as a force will be bu66ered before long.

Oh come on...These people who make the decision to leave do so for a reason and of their own free will, who am I to try and change their mind? You are, by default calling into question their ability to make such an important decision and if that is the case perhaps that is why they are leaving in the first. I am pretty sure I could talk anyone out of PVRing, however I wouldn't like to think that by doing so the individual may have missed an opportunity. I think you also misinterpret the definition of career manager. We can certainly manage the person, however it is not within our gift to manage their career. Can we dictate what courses personnel go on and when..no, can we get them that posting to Cyprus they want..no, can we get them posted to that high profile job that just might help them advance, no. Sure, we can make representations on their behalf but if it doesn't fit into the big picture as they say it wont happen. Unlike officers, Non-commissioned pers don't have their careers mapped out, in that they need certain ticks in the box prior to being considered for promotion, they fill gaps, and for those reasons they are but a number. So when the guys come in and ask for their paper work to be signed, it will be duly signed and I for one will wish them all the best for the future.

 

[theladf]

One important stat that it won't tell you is how many people are turning down LOS30 and leaving at the 22 year point.:raf:

Thats what I did

 

[grumpyoldb]

Oh come on...These people who make the decision to leave do so for a reason and of their own free will, who am I to try and change their mind? You are, by default calling into question their ability to make such an important decision and if that is the case perhaps that is why they are leaving in the first. I am pretty sure I could talk anyone out of PVRing, however I wouldn't like to think that by doing so the individual may have missed an opportunity. I think you also misinterpret the definition of career manager. We can certainly manage the person, however it is not within our gift to manage their career. Can we dictate what courses personnel go on and when..no, can we get them that posting to Cyprus they want..no, can we get them posted to that high profile job that just might help them advance, no. Sure, we can make representations on their behalf but if it doesn't fit into the big picture as they say it wont happen. Unlike officers, Non-commissioned pers don't have their careers mapped out, in that they need certain ticks in the box prior to being considered for promotion, they fill gaps, and for those reasons they are but a number. So when the guys come in and ask for their paper work to be signed, it will be duly signed and I for one will wish them all the best for the future.

If that's the way all managers think these day's, I'm glad I got out when I did.
I joined in the day's before you had to sign for 22, but when I got to the end of 12, my Eng O gave me sh!t for a week 'cos I wouldn't re-engage.
Things don't always change for the best.DT_Xtremez_26:

 

[mememe]

If that's the way all managers think these day's, I'm glad I got out when I did.
I joined in the day's before you had to sign for 22, but when I got to the end of 12, my Eng O gave me sh!t for a week 'cos I wouldn't re-engage.
Things don't always change for the best.DT_Xtremez_26:

I can not confirm the way all managers think these days.
Are you inferring that rather than be pragmatic and tell the truth we should lie to the guy wanting to PVR that the military is the best organisation ever or We can guaruntee the posting of choice/promotion/leave when they want it/pay increases/no OOA as it doesn't fit with their career pathway/etc etc. We can't, therefore it would be wrong of us to pressurise an individual into changing their mind.

 

[grumpyoldb]

I can not confirm the way all managers think these days.
Are you inferring that rather than be pragmatic and tell the truth we should lie to the guy wanting to PVR that the military is the best organisation ever or We can guaruntee the posting of choice/promotion/leave when they want it/pay increases/no OOA as it doesn't fit with their career pathway/etc etc. We can't, therefore it would be wrong of us to pressurise an individual into changing their mind.

I didn't infer anything. I simply made a statement about my feelings.
I sugest you read Wobbly's post about the government wanting to know why people are leaving.

Probably because no-one bothers to ask.

 

[Realist78]

Do you think they will ever do anything about it ? I cant see people changing their mind on this matter unless there is a serious policy shift.

No, they won't do anything about it because, unbelievably, they appear to be still in denial. When they eventually realise that people are leaving before they would normally expect to do so, it will be too late and lead to panic measures such as short term promotions which, whilst ok for the promotees, will possibly place them in posts where they are not sufficiently qualified IMO.:raf:

 

[MrMasher]

Oh come on...These people who make the decision to leave do so for a reason and of their own free will, who am I to try and change their mind? You are, by default calling into question their ability to make such an important decision and if that is the case perhaps that is why they are leaving in the first. I am pretty sure I could talk anyone out of PVRing, however I wouldn't like to think that by doing so the individual may have missed an opportunity. I think you also misinterpret the definition of career manager. We can certainly manage the person, however it is not within our gift to manage their career. Can we dictate what courses personnel go on and when..no, can we get them that posting to Cyprus they want..no, can we get them posted to that high profile job that just might help them advance, no. Sure, we can make representations on their behalf but if it doesn't fit into the big picture as they say it wont happen. Unlike officers, Non-commissioned pers don't have their careers mapped out, in that they need certain ticks in the box prior to being considered for promotion, they fill gaps, and for those reasons they are but a number. So when the guys come in and ask for their paper work to be signed, it will be duly signed and I for one will wish them all the best for the future.

I shake my head.

So if the person is disillusioned and hasnt seen another side to the RAF (because we tend to stay in post for longer these day) the boss shouldnt try and enlighten the airman as to what else he could do before just throwing in a PVR?
Perhaps not discussing it with the drafters or engineer the person a move to a different section or work environment?
We need to keep the younger generation in the RAF, not let them go.

What you're alluding to is just say yes to anyone who wants to PVR. Thats ludicrous! Its all well and good wishing them well for the future, but to dismiss them straight out of hand is a sign of pish poor managerial skills and a woeful lack of interest.
No wonder there are publications trying to promote the ethos of the air force.

I agree, an airmans career is more a lottery than an officers, but to basically not care, like you seem to, is wrong. If you can do something to help which keeps that person in the mob, then you should do it.

 

[Stroppyjock]

I banged out at 17 years, after signing on for LOS30, but to tell you the truth it's the best thing I done, now work for Scotrail, good money, good hours and if you work overtime it's £100 per day flat rate regardless how long you work, but it wont be over 8 hours. Brilliant computer systems that talk to each other and do what they say they will. No hastle with uniform issues, order what you want. Good training school in Glasgow and plenty of opportunities for promotion. But dont get me wrong when people say the military are prime for employers in civvie street dont believe them, it was a long hard struggle to get decent work, but you dont half feel a wieght has been lifted. No CCS/Fittest, no Training days, no report writing no detachments to sh*tholes. Plus you get a preserved pension at 60 which is about £160 a month short of a full pension so even thats not too bad. Hope this has helped anyone who may be swithering.

 

[Sospan]

No, they won't do anything about it because, unbelievably, they appear to be still in denial. When they eventually realise that people are leaving before they would normally expect to do so, it will be too late and lead to panic measures such as short term promotions which, whilst ok for the promotees, will possibly place them in posts where they are not sufficiently qualified IMO.:raf:

The only other possible way out of that situation would be to pay people their pension from the 22 year point. The chances of that happening are big fat 0...