Can TG3 Adapt to TG4?

[pilgrimshuffler]

I perhaps am going to get a hail of abuse for this next comment and it is slightly off subject but there isn't any where else to put it and it is to do with the TG4 Briefs that have been taking place at various locations.

I have attended them and some of my colleagues and the over whelming thing that came out of them was the TG3/TG11 Devide, TG3 still cannot except the change and in particular to the one that i attended a majority of them still seem to have the "high and mighty" complex when comparing themselves to TG11.

This really has to be addressed, hopefully at grass roots level, i.e Tossford. Where alot of TG3 Sgt's teach and preach that TG4 is pants and that the Trade sponsor is the devil in disguise. Until we all get over this complex, TG4 will be destined for failure.

Admins, please feel free to move this, i am aware that it has been covered but i feel it needs to be addressed.DT_Xtremez_32:

 

[PVRisthefuture]

TG3 still cannot except the change and in particular to the one that i attended a majority of them still seem to have the "high and mighty" complex when comparing themselves to TG11.

As you can see fella, feelings are harbored on both sides, you have a chip on your shoulder. Perhaps the so called high and mighty complex you are referring to is the techies who stayed on at school, did 18 months trade training PLUS equipment courses. This in comparison to your 6 month training and no entry qualifications, and you are on the same pay, and you (had) two ranks less to contend with for promotion. I like most peanuts as people, it is the system, I, and many like me despise for putting us in this position.

 

[pilgrimshuffler]

It really isn't meant to be for that, perhaps i new thread i just want the TG3 point of view and if they feel we will ever beable to work along side, without the "we did more training than you" attitude

 

[pilgrimshuffler]

PVR, it really was the attitude that was in the brief that i attended, to be honest it really shocked me, perhaps it was just the personnel that were in there, i have many TG3 friends, and we have the banter, but this was a volitile attack.

 

[speccytechy]

I perhaps am going to get a hail of abuse for this next comment and it is slightly off subject but there isn't any where else to put it and it is to do with the TG4 Briefs that have been taking place at various locations.

I have attended them and some of my colleagues and the over whelming thing that came out of them was the TG3/TG11 Devide, TG3 still cannot except the change and in particular to the one that i attended a majority of them still seem to have the "high and mighty" complex when comparing themselves to TG11.

This really has to be addressed, hopefully at grass roots level, i.e Tossford. Where alot of TG3 Sgt's teach and preach that TG4 is pants and that the Trade sponsor is the devil in disguise. Until we all get over this complex, TG4 will be destined for failure.

Admins, please feel free to move this, i am aware that it has been covered but i feel it needs to be addressed.DT_Xtremez_32:

I guess TG3 feel the way they do cause there has so far been nothing positive for them to come out of the amalgamation where as lots of positives so far have happened for TG 11 . Have seen promotions for CIS Tech cpls to sgt stop totally , been told there is no need for half the trade , watching people spend shorter in rank than themselves getting promoted quicker , possible increase on the amount of OOAs and the time between each one get shorter . A lot of people feel that all the new TG 4 stuff could of been down by TG3 with ease , the only prob was commcens but they are going , your WO has played a blinder fair play to him for looking after your guys , he saw that your future was looking bleak so helped you guys out and you cant blame him for doing that and i know its not the fault of the guys on the ground , this was fecked up from the start and at a very high level .

 

[mad_collie]

It really isn't meant to be for that, perhaps i new thread i just want the TG3 point of view and if they feel we will ever beable to work along side, without the "we did more training than you" attitude

Threads split to the different topics.

MC

 

[PVRisthefuture]

PVR, it really was the attitude that was in the brief that i attended, to be honest it really shocked me, perhaps it was just the personnel that were in there, i have many TG3 friends, and we have the banter, but this was a volitile attack.

As I say, I like you ex-TG11 types, it is the system that is wrong. Sorry if how we feel offended you. Put yourself in our shoes, over 10 years in the mob and no tapes... well I had to do mech training (longer than your basic) go off out in the world for 2 - 3 years, go back on an FT course (another 9 months) get promoted to another rank (SAC equivalent apparently) and wait a minimum of 3 years to accrue assessments to be promoted to the rank your trade has a 3 - 4 year head start on me. Objectively, I appear to be being punished for being a techie. The difference that made it worth while was the pay... now that is gone. Echo's of TG4???? Incentive for TG4 OM to tech? No extra pay.. personal pride? Give me a break.

 

[pilgrimshuffler]

Listening to the briefs, it seems that if the TG3 guys/girls want to be picked up in the next 3/5 years, especially those nearing the end of the game they have been advised to switch across, how many of you would or know people willing to? Surely a good option for cementing a higher pension then perhaps moving back across to a more tech orientated TG4 slot at a later date.

 

[CIS Tech]

TG3 cannot adapt to TG4 as half of TG3 is getting wiped out. Surely leaving us as we were and rebalancing the trade with new recruits would have been a much less devisive way of doing things.

 

[durdlepier]

i feel the main difference that there is still a big divide between ex tg3 and tg11 is due to the lack of knowledge about the future of tg4 that is being passed down the ranks.
When i signed the dotted line at the afco i had intended the raf to be my career as a techie, only to be informed yesterday that unless i re-muster i can't even sign on to 12 years, while OM's are given the option to sign on for 22 even as an SAC.
We just feel like ex tg11 have gained much more from tg4 (such as higher pay for IM) and my career as well as those of my colleagues have been cut short, not out of choice but from someone on a much higher pay scale who can't see whats happening at ground level.

 

[speccytechy]

TG3 cannot adapt to TG4 as half of TG3 is getting wiped out. Surely leaving us as we were and rebalancing the trade with new recruits would have been a much less devisive way of doing things.

As was suggested in our office yesterday , it was the TG11 stuff that was dying . TG4 stuff should of been left for the TG3 , the majority of the trade already had the skills required . I know its very harsh on TG11 but would of saved a lot of probs and prob money in the long run .

 

[Wing boy]

As I say, I like you ex-TG11 types, it is the system that is wrong. Sorry if how we feel offended you. Put yourself in our shoes, over 10 years in the mob and no tapes... well I had to do mech training (longer than your basic) go off out in the world for 2 - 3 years, go back on an FT course (another 9 months) get promoted to another rank (SAC equivalent apparently) and wait a minimum of 3 years to accrue assessments to be promoted to the rank your trade has a 3 - 4 year head start on me. Objectively, I appear to be being punished for being a techie. The difference that made it worth while was the pay... now that is gone. Echo's of TG4???? Incentive for TG4 OM to tech? No extra pay.. personal pride? Give me a break.

I think you will find that TG4 CIS Tech's (as they will be once they have done the tech part of the course) will be on the higher pay. So there is that incentive. You bleat that your higher pay has gone, what? have you been demoted? have they made you take a pay cut? No mate they haven't so therefore it hasn't gone anywhere.

 

[pilgrimshuffler]

I beleave the reason given why you weren't left alone, (not my words) was that because of the level of maintenance that you are required to carry out has now virtually been wiped out (not all places) due to the "it's nakered lets just get another" contracts in place. if that would have happened you lot would have existed for a few more years but they would have come in and got rid. Harsh i know but with TG11, ATLAS is a threat but thankfully DII has created more problems than it has resolved so TG4 will be neede on the MOB's for a few more years and the need for constant training in between deployment civvies won't be brought in.

 

[NFTR]

As you can see fella, feelings are harbored on both sides, you have a chip on your shoulder. Perhaps the so called high and mighty complex you are referring to is the techies who stayed on at school, did 18 months trade training PLUS equipment courses. This in comparison to your 6 month training and no entry qualifications, and you are on the same pay, and you (had) two ranks less to contend with for promotion. I like most peanuts as people, it is the system, I, and many like me despise for putting us in this position.

You missed his point totally. He is just expressing concern over the growing bad feeling and animosity directed towards ex-TG11 by you ex-TG3 types. In fact you amplify exactly what the problem is, your attitude. QUOTE: techies who stayed on at school, did 18 months trade training PLUS equipment courses. This in comparison to your 6 month training and no entry qualifications UNQUOTE.

TG4 has happened, ok it's not exactly panning out as we would have hoped but it's here. The trade sponsors (both) have worked hard and it seems that the TG3 side was a little less pro-active.

Also please bear in mind that a dedicated CIS trade has been on the table for 15 or 20 years. Unfortunately it has been overtaken by events, ie, the transfer of posts into ATLAS, DII and the cuts prompted by the SDR. How different it would have been if the political climate was the same as when the idea was first thrown about.

 

[pilgrimshuffler]

Speccy Tech, i'm sorry mate i have to disagree, the majority of the jobs available in the I Hubs are designed for the om side of the trade, i.e Web design, file sharing etc, there are a few places where that has been blurred but i can assure you that is the map for the future. In civvy street though there is still a definite Hardware and Soft ware divide.

 

[mad_collie]

Speccy Tech, i'm sorry mate i have to disagree, the majority of the jobs available in the I Hubs are designed for the om side of the trade, i.e Web design, file sharing etc, there are a few places where that has been blurred but i can assure you that is the map for the future. In civvy street though there is still a definite Hardware and Soft ware divide.

I think he was referring to the fact that all the commcens were closing when commenting about the TG11 side of things dying out.

 

[PVRisthefuture]

Speccy Tech, i'm sorry mate i have to disagree, the majority of the jobs available in the I Hubs are designed for the om side of the trade, i.e Web design, file sharing etc

So why aren't the civilianising all those jobs? I know there is a need for turn around, but our trade is supporting legacy kit until the ponce, I mean sponsor can ditch it and get civvies to run it. Then we'll be on the wing. As for you... well, i-hubs have never looked better....

 

[speccytechy]

I think you will find that TG4 CIS Tech's (as they will be once they have done the tech part of the course) will be on the higher pay. So there is that incentive. You bleat that your higher pay has gone, what? have you been demoted? have they made you take a pay cut? No mate they haven't so therefore it hasn't gone anywhere.

What tech part of the course ? hasnt even been written or anywhere near been written . Not many people will do it . why do a 9 month tech course to get high pay when they can do the 3 week IM course to get high pay .

 

[CIS Tech]

om side of the trade, i.e Web design,

Since when was Web design not a technical vocation?

Fair enough the few p1ssy little websites that seem to spring up now and a gain but the real clever websites with code behind them require a technical bent. Something your trade sponsor has already admitted to and why he's so desperate to get ex TG3s into IM slots until the new IMs (with the knowledge) can take over.

 

[speccytechy]

I think he was referring to the fact that all the commcens were closing when commenting about the TG11 side of things dying out.

I was indeed MC and all the stuff mentioned by pilgrim could easily of been done by TG3 .