Questions for CAS

[Sospan]

Sir.

Whilst hunkered down in a 12 by 12 in Afghanistan last year surrounded by my colleagues and I you revealed some information to us that I feel you have not acted upon.

At the time the Weather had cloed in markedly and your Herc couldn,t take you away, so you came away from your planning meeting and met with the 904 EAW boys operating the airstrip.

You might remember that somehow at 0100 we managed to produce some Danish pastries and what can only be described as 'illicit winter cheer' for you and your entourage. (Thank you MCSU )

You informed us that the firefighter trade group is the only trade group in the entire RAF whereby the performance indicators are red in all 17 areas!

Today I have been informed that this trade with the highest PVR rate, one of the most phenomenal OOA turnarounds and a lack of potential recruits due to an admin error that wiped the names of everyone is expected to commit more manpower to operations

You are no doubt aware that the RAF Fire Service is currently extremely poorly manned with fit for ops personnel and today the request for 150 more OOA posts has been discussed.

This trade is established for 540 posts, although defence planning assumptions recommends 562 posts. We only have 360 men and women fit for ops covering 110 Posts OOA, yet now you have asked to increase this to 260 posts OOA.

My question is simple Sir.

Do you care about the effect that this will have on the Wives, Husbands and children of the RAF firefighters that will spend 4 months away 1 week home then away again to meet your requirements? and will you personally explain to those same children why Daddy or Mummy will miss every single birthday, Christmas and other special day in their lives becuse they are away at the war?

I really do feel for your OOA commitments, nobody should have turnaround times as ridiculous as that. With many "any trade" OOA kicking about have they ever used any of the hundereds of ETNS guys that were trained for the strikes for OOA like MPA ? without belittling the trade, surely trained ETNS, or localy tranined people could fill some of the slots.

 

[BillyBunter]

This was a good post on that PRUNE thread which kind of sums up in my view what the RAF is about.

(((((((((((((((((I love the way that only politicians and senior officers are blamed for everything. Politicians seem to be held totally responsible and the top senior officers are accused of being spineless and only interested in their careers.

Maybe we (sorry you – I left in May) should look a little bit closer to home:

How many SNCOs and WOs tell their JengOs that the RAF is in meltdown?

How many JengOs tell their SengOs how pi$$ed off the lads are.

How many SengOs tell OC Sqn or OC Eng (Forward or Depth?) how hacked off their entire Sqn is.

How many OC Sqns or OC Eng’s tell the Stn Cdr’s that there might be a problem with morale on a particular Sqn.

How many Stn Cdr’s tell the AOC that their station is overworked and undermanned & basically can’t cope anymore?

How many AOCs tell Glenn how it really is???

They can’t because nobody gets the truth from the bottom.

Two problems exist:

1. There will always be a “Can Do” attitude from those that care and they will always sort it. This hides the problem.
2. Those that only play at being in the RAF will always suck up to their boss and tell them what they want to here - whatever the rank.

I think a few of you that post here and make such strong comments need to take a long hard look on just how brave you are to tell your Bosses how it is – ????

I knew Glenn when he was Stn Cdr at Bruggen – and he was a bloody good bloke.

Finally pause for thought – just how many top Civil Servant type chappies really care about what goes on at the front line. They are the ones that make the real decisions. They dictate the size of our forces, they dictate where the money is spent, and they take the credit when it all goes well and destroy military careers when it all goes wrong. And then they sit back and watch the politicians and senior officers take all the flack. )))))))))))))))))))

 

[MontyPlumbs]

This was a good post on that PRUNE thread which kind of sums up in my view what the RAF is about.

(((((((((((((((((I love the way that only politicians and senior officers are blamed for everything. Politicians seem to be held totally responsible and the top senior officers are accused of being spineless and only interested in their careers.

Maybe we (sorry you – I left in May) should look a little bit closer to home:

How many SNCOs and WOs tell their JengOs that the RAF is in meltdown?

How many JengOs tell their SengOs how pi$$ed off the lads are.

How many SengOs tell OC Sqn or OC Eng (Forward or Depth?) how hacked off their entire Sqn is.

How many OC Sqns or OC Eng’s tell the Stn Cdr’s that there might be a problem with morale on a particular Sqn.

How many Stn Cdr’s tell the AOC that their station is overworked and undermanned & basically can’t cope anymore?

How many AOCs tell Glenn how it really is???

They can’t because nobody gets the truth from the bottom.

Two problems exist:

1. There will always be a “Can Do” attitude from those that care and they will always sort it. This hides the problem.
2. Those that only play at being in the RAF will always suck up to their boss and tell them what they want to here - whatever the rank.

I think a few of you that post here and make such strong comments need to take a long hard look on just how brave you are to tell your Bosses how it is – ????

I knew Glenn when he was Stn Cdr at Bruggen – and he was a bloody good bloke.

Finally pause for thought – just how many top Civil Servant type chappies really care about what goes on at the front line. They are the ones that make the real decisions. They dictate the size of our forces, they dictate where the money is spent, and they take the credit when it all goes well and destroy military careers when it all goes wrong. And then they sit back and watch the politicians and senior officers take all the flack. )))))))))))))))))))

I have, and I'm not even a JNCO, let alone a SNCO.

 

[skevans]

I really do feel for your OOA commitments, nobody should have turnaround times as ridiculous as that. With many "any trade" OOA kicking about have they ever used any of the hundereds of ETNS guys that were trained for the strikes for OOA like MPA ? without belittling the trade, surely trained ETNS, or localy tranined people could fill some of the slots.

It has been discussed at 2* level, which I had some involvement in. Ultimately there are legalities that can't be overcome. The other question of course is what trades are so well manned that they could release people?

 

[Past Engineering]

I knew/know quite a lot of airmen/women/JNCOs/SNCOs who used to constantly tell the officer corp that the RAF is going down hill and why. I knew/know of no Fl Lt who had the courage to pass on any of those problems, I personally knew/know of two Sqd Ldrs who have had the courage to stand up and be counted, one Wg Cdr who stood up for the Sqd and one Stn Cdr who is trying to make things better at his current unit, that is over the last 40 years.

As an example of what is known at the top:

In 1996 a certain person from MOD/Government had heard rumours that there were some problems at station level, his first visit was to RAF Coningsby, about 12-15 Sncos in the first four groups led him to believe that there was only two problems in the RAF that was the Lack of Postings and the low pay. I asked about the dire spares problem and his answer was a cracker "I have never been aware there was a spares problem, that is why I have reduced the Tornado spares budget by £1 million", I then went on to explain about ripple robbing, christmas tree aircraft, he said "I have know idea what all that means", when I explained what it all involved as a solution to the spares problem ", he then said "I am not aware that this was an issue".
I also explained the problems with manning that was made worse because of the problems with lack of spares, and that if he wanted to save money why had we had an army of contractors painting white lines all over the place and then using 4/5 heat blowers for an hour or two all over the HAS site to try and dry the paint, making new signs that did not need doing, but at this point the Stn Cdr and SWO who had been going through shades of purple whisked him away as they claimed they were behind schedule. The Supply Sqd Ldr who was part of the same group was absolutely gob smacked, as he told me that even he has not been told that there are supply issues due to lack of spares, I'll give him his due when he went back after my brief he made a small difference at Coninsgby.

 

[Sospan]

It has been discussed at 2* level, which I had some involvement in. Ultimately there are legalities that can't be overcome. The other question of course is what trades are so well manned that they could release people?

During the fire Strikes in the UK, every single ETNS person I knew saw some action(that they were trained to deal with), if trained people were expected to provide cover for the British general public I am surprised that legalities could stop somebody carrying out fire cover at MPA, where the likelihood of firefighting is slim to zero. But if its been discussed it seems like a opportunity missed. As for the trades, I now that my Trade Group (TG1) has a very long turnaround time for personnel not connected to any unit OOA. i.e a Cpl that is not on a Sqn or holds no A/C Q's could go for a significant time before getting sent away.

 

[busby1971]

I knew/know quite a lot of airmen/women/JNCOs/SNCOs who used to constantly tell the officer corp that the RAF is going down hill and why. I knew/know of no Fl Lt who had the courage to pass on any of those problems, I personally knew/know of two Sqd Ldrs who have had the courage to stand up and be counted, one Wg Cdr who stood up for the Sqd and one Stn Cdr who is trying to make things better at his current unit, that is over the last 40 years.

As an example of what is known at the top:

In 1996 a certain person from MOD/Government had heard rumours that there were some problems at station level, his first visit was to RAF Coningsby, about 12-15 Sncos in the first four groups led him to believe that there was only two problems in the RAF that was the Lack of Postings and the low pay. I asked about the dire spares problem and his answer was a cracker "I have never been aware there was a spares problem, that is why I have reduced the Tornado spares budget by £1 million", I then went on to explain about ripple robbing, christmas tree aircraft, he said "I have know idea what all that means", when I explained what it all involved as a solution to the spares problem ", he then said "I am not aware that this was an issue".
I also explained the problems with manning that was made worse because of the problems with lack of spares, and that if he wanted to save money why had we had an army of contractors painting white lines all over the place and then using 4/5 heat blowers for an hour or two all over the HAS site to try and dry the paint, making new signs that did not need doing, but at this point the Stn Cdr and SWO who had been going through shades of purple whisked him away as they claimed they were behind schedule. The Supply Sqd Ldr who was part of the same group was absolutely gob smacked, as he told me that even he has not been told that there are supply issues due to lack of spares, I'll give him his due when he went back after my brief he made a small difference at Coninsgby.

Just moaning about something will just get you marked down as a moaner, highlight some solutions and you may become known as a problem solver.

Yes men get promoted easier than people who hightlight areas for improvement, I know a Sqn Ldr who stood up for the RAF and his Unit, had his career progression posting cancelled and sent of to logs HQ instead to mark time

 

[4mastacker]

I'm not out to defend the current CAS - I never knew the bloke when I was in the mob except I did seem his name mentioned in the papers during GW1.

However, going from what has been raised in earlier posts, the anger that is aimed toward him stems from situations that haven't just happened overnight and perhaps a lot that anger should be directed at the current CAS's predecessor(s).

I was based near to the educational and cultural centre of NW Norfolk during GW1 and the man who was staish at the time could give lessons to Lord Lucan on maintaining a low profile. On xmas day, just before GW1 proper really kicked off, this same man came into the sqn where the youngsters were working balls out to get the kit out east and all he could talk about was how well he was managing the estate works budget and ensuring that the MQ roads were being re-curbed.

There was also a bit of a kerfuffle afterwards about the lack of awards for the crews of the flying filling stations when "an MOD spokesman" said nominations for medals was down to the unit commander.

From my own perspective, it is that kind of out-of-touch management (by others as well than this man) which has contributed to the current situation and reinforces a popular perception that incompetence is rewarded - just get the tick in the box for doing all the right courses and drinking Earl Grey tea in the right company - never mind doing the job properly!

I'm a civvy now, but it still dismays me when I read here (and on pprune) just how low things have got.

Good luck to you guys (and girls) who are hanging on in there - you deserve better!

 

[Captain Gatso]

Just been reading a similer thread on PPruNe, there is a fairly disturbing picture that someone has put on which relates to spares. I can't get it transferd on to here, however if you see it you will see what i mean. the question that i would put to CAS would be.

Sir whilst I recognise that we have to move forward, would it be a good time to stop and look at few key issues which do not involve Typhoon, PTI's, Rock apes and Civil servants.

1.) Are you looking seriously at addressing the crises (which it is) of your personel leaving in droves because morale is at rock bottom.

2.) Do you agree that JPA is not fit for purpose at this current time?

3.) Do you agree that we have a serious spares problem.

4.) Do you agree that alot of your personel use E-goat, pPruNe and other associated websites to air thier views, as we cannot take our concearns through the chain of command, as you think we are all winging singlies, living in a barrack block.DT_Xtremez_14:

 

[Past Engineering]

busby1971:

Just moaning about something will just get you marked down as a moaner, highlight some solutions and you may become known as a problem solver.

What I highlighted was not a demonstration of people just moaning, it was genuine concerns being highlighted with solutions and consequences given, the other side to the coin is you are not usually seen as a problem solver in most cases, you get seen as trying to show them up/make them look stupid which is worse than being a 'moaner' and even those who did listen and accept what they had been told, they had the same problem with those above them, it is a lose/lose situation until those at the top allow open and honest communication through all levels of the rank structure (up and down) without fear of the consequences, but most of all when they all finally acknowledge there is a problem to actually do something about it before it is to late.

 

[work_shy_get]

Having only been in for three years (yes yes yes I know naafi queues more leave than time served I get it!!) but coming from a military family. I have to admit I expected more from not just the RAF but from the forces in general (after all, all three services are suffering are we not?)

I may only be a sprog with little experience, however in the last 6 months I have been told that my gen app to the Falklands has been refused because Atlas/DCSA (yes, civilian companies) were unwilling to lose my experience for 4 months!?!?!? I was posted from waddington to the AWC, yet didnt start my new posting until 3 weeks later due to a week remaining on guard, then 2 weeks covering for the extreme man power problems in the station commcen. The commcen currently suffering with OOA commitments and 2 operators on guard, with postings and courses there is currently 1 operator working solid nights!!!! Because other operators cannot work shifts. Why, I ask and many may agree is this commcen not on restricted hours?!

In my opinion things will only get worse, by our very nature we do not want to be the ones who moan, we dont want to make things difficult for ourselves and why make the awful morale any worse by admitting out loud that there is a problem? Any body who has ever mentioned to the heirarchy that there are problems in the wider air force not just your own sqn is basically told to wind your neck in and get on with it.

It's a shame we cant strike........ draft in the firemen and the posties and lets all bugger off on holiday!DT_Xtremez_06: oops thinking aloud!

Would I recommend the RAF to anyone after 3 years? would I hell

 

[Max]

Whilst I understand where you're coming from with your reduced hours it's starting to sound a bit like some other sections on camp that frequently "Close" for afternoons because they are undermanned...

What about the Techies on Squadrons and Line Squadrons? They're undermanned but are they allowed to reduce hours? Not likely they declare a No flying day or whatever which is an Aircrew day off whilst the groundcrew get to do some extra and any days off due to their exceptional work are usually subject to operational circumstance which once again means the rest of the Station gets a day off whilst they work......


Royal AIR Force not Royal ADMIN Force....... ::

 

[work_shy_get]

By the same token tho, in my experience techies dont work a full night shift, whereas this poor girl who is the only shiftie is working 13/14 hr night shifts! Now in this world of H&S surely it's not right for her to be completely alone in that building all night?

 

[MeerKat]

Here Goes

Here Goes

Sir, considering the recents comments of CGS regarding his desire to still have an army in 5-10 years time, how would you counter the accusation that the continued silence of the Senior Leadership Team is de facto acceptance that the RAF is not only breaking apart, but is very unlikely to be in a position to celebrate it's one hundreth birthday.

 

[Realist78]

Sir, considering the recents comments of CGS regarding his desire to still have an army in 5-10 years time, how would you counter the accusation that the continued silence of the Senior Leadership Team is de facto acceptance that the RAF is not only breaking apart, but is very unlikely to be in a position to celebrate it's one hundreth birthday.

I asked this very question at an AMP briefing last week. Given how they (we) bang on about 2 way communication, the silence is unbelievable. No response, just furious scribbling.DT_Xtremez_26:

 

[prop135]

Sir

Why do we have more Air Commadore's than aircraft?
Why are there currently 63 Gp Capt's on gardening leave?
Why, if we no longer have groups do we need so many Gp Capt's?
Wouldn't the reduction of Senior Officers and therefore wages help ease the pressure of defence cuts?

 

[roverboy]

I asked this very question at an AMP briefing last week. Given how they (we) bang on about 2 way communication, the silence is unbelievable. No response, just furious scribbling.DT_Xtremez_26:

Better they write down your concerns to raise higher up the chain than just tell you what the party line is though. I've always been under the impression that they SHOULD be listening to us rather than fobby us off with standard politicians answers.

 

[Realist78]

Better they write down your concerns to raise higher up the chain than just tell you what the party line is though. I've always been under the impression that they SHOULD be listening to us rather than fobby us off with standard politicians answers.

Wholeheartedly agree but they know the sketch and should have had something to communicate. It's the hot topic at the moment and has been for some time!DT_Xtremez_26:

 

[skevans]

Sir

Why do we have more Air Commadore's than aircraft?
Why are there currently 63 Gp Capt's on gardening leave?
Why, if we no longer have groups do we need so many Gp Capt's?
Wouldn't the reduction of Senior Officers and therefore wages help ease the pressure of defence cuts?

Not true I'm afraid. I work for 22 Group for starters!

However I agree with the rest of your statements.

After all Sqn leaders should lead squadrons, wing commanders should command wings etc! then we wouldn't have so many seniors doing...., well doing what!?!?!?

 

[Douglas Bader's Right Leg]

Re: Questions for CAS

Sir,

How many times during a Stn visit have you met with non-commissioned personnel?

The last time CAS visited a unit I was on, his itinerary consisted of 2 hours with the Stn Cdr, 2 hours with the Fg Sqns (aircrew only) and 1 hour in the Offrs' Mess talking about Typhoon (we were on an AT unit!). What an effective use of time and resources that was.

He is also extremely dull and very political, so it is probably to the benefit of the ORs that they weren't subjected to him, but you have to wonder whether he knows they even exist.