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UK Bloodhound firing

MAINJAFAD

Warrant Officer
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I was talking about humans who happen to be brothers..... Not two completely different SAM systems.............BH MK2 never looked like a Slug!!

I do think that the Slug actually shot something down 25 years ago!!

Am I correct MJ??

No kills for the Slug in the Falklands, HMS Antrim did fire an unguided Slug at some Daggers that attacked her on 21 May 82 to put them off and clear the launcher (as the was a UXB in the ship at the time, for an earlier attack. The loading system had been damaged by the bomb as it entered the ship, damaging two missiles in the magazine, before coming to rest in the heads (toilet)).

HMS Glamorgan did use the Sea Slug as a surface to surface missile for attacks on the airfield at Stanley on 27 and 30 May 82 and they reckon that one of the missiles fired on the 27 hit the building on the ground that they were aiming at.
 

MAINJAFAD

Warrant Officer
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I was one of the last bloodhound mote techies 1990-91 (saw them scrapped thank god). Had to go to west raynham on promotion. I liked norfolk as it was a quaint place to life however the year and a half were the most horrifing, tedious 8 to 5, cra**y, sole destroying, rubbishy, unfulfilling, grotty, bollo**xed, time wasting job I have ever spent in a blue uniform. We had to do hanger fod plods every friday cos they were re-designated "aircraft" to keep TG2 there servicing the t@ats and even had to do "indies" on the pitot static systems ????? for christ sake as they were now aircraft. To top it all we did a bloodhound exercise a month after the announcement of scrapping. How stupid is that. The staish actually came on the tannoy and threatened to charge the next man who did not take it seriously. No I have no affection for the c*ap that was the BHMK2. May it rot in its grave. Your truly "I hate Bloodhound"

No Sympathy from me, I had to work with that bunch of idiot bosses in MMF from 1987 when the AR's turned up at West Raynham (thought it was called MSF back in those days, First AR I met was on the underground in London coming back from visiting a mate at Locking, got chatting to him and found he was posted to West Raynham, when I asked what trade he was, he replied L Tech AR, to which I replied , we don't have any aircraft at Raynham. His answer, I'm working on Bloodhound. Thank the chopping of the Nimrod AEW for that little addition to the AR empire, where did you work 1+2 (Charlie M or Chesty M) or 3+4 (Tony G, one of only two people I know to fail the MOTE Course and a complete idiot). Flew the defect mote for most of my time there, hence fault finding ever day which did make the job a lot more fun than doing majors and minors day in and day out, minors were not that bad, hated doing SP93 on the majors however, wing pick off setting up was a b!tch.

Raynham was renowned for its exercises, the Christmas Eve one in the early 80's being the most famous on the station. Endex midday thanks to the Staish's wife being roughed up by the wife of one of the Cpl's in the NAFFI shop with a warning to 'get your husband to stop this Sh!te now'. It did screw up a lot of peoples Christmas however.
 
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Lobby1234

LAC
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Hi JAFAD

Hi JAFAD

Is the Tony G you speak of second name like a bar in a field with a ly on the end. If it is I agree. I had to work with him too. When I left he was looking to get a new career driving a tractor. I really hated the motes as it was like working in a factory. missiles in missiles out. I have blotted out most of the cr*p around that time.
 

Lobby1234

LAC
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Hi JAFAD

Hi JAFAD

Is the Tony G you speak of second name like a bar in a field with a ly on the end. If it is I agree. I had to work with him too. When I left he was looking to get a new career driving a tractor. I really hated the motes as it was like working in a factory. missiles in missiles out. I have blotted out most of the cr*p that was going on around that time.
 
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thebloodhound1970

Guest
has anyone got any pictures of the mk 1 bloodhound, or if there are any on display around the country?
 

MAINJAFAD

Warrant Officer
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has anyone got any pictures of the mk 1 bloodhound, or if there are any on display around the country?

Off the top of my head there are 7 Mk 1s kicking around in the UK at least.

IWM Duxford (hidden in a corner of the Battle of Britain / Fighter Command hanger).

North East Air Museum, Sunderland has two. One inside from the RAF Museum reserve collection and a knackered pre-production round that came from the Bristol Aero Collection at Kemble outside..

Sandtoft Flying Club, near Doncaster (they have a Mk1 on a Type 101 (BH1) launcher and a Mk1 / Mk 2 hybird (Mark 1 modified to look like a Mark 2 for missile handling training) on a Type 200 (BH2) launcher outside the club house.

L Jackson & Son, Misson (near Finningley). Old 94 Sqn missile site is now used as a depot an army surplus vehicle supplier. The old concrete pads for the missile launchers are still there and on one of them is a knackered Mk 1 missile on a type 100 launcher, lost of bits missing from it however. The site is called, not surprisingly 'The Rocket Site'.

Norfolk and Suffolk Air Museum, Fixton. Mark 1 on a Type 100 Launcher

Wells Archaeological Supplies (between Wells and Glastonbury). An almost complete Mk1 on a display stand, its starting to corrode badly.

I have photos of all of them.
 
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thebloodhound1970

Guest
Mainjafad, dont know if ive caughty the wrong end of the stick here, but from what that I Look Like Kevin Costner guy is saying, do you have a website. Forgive me if im wrong and I have indeed got things completely mixed up!
 

MAINJAFAD

Warrant Officer
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Mainjafad, dont know if ive caughty the wrong end of the stick here, but from what that I Look Like Kevin Costner guy is saying, do you have a website. Forgive me if im wrong and I have indeed got things completely mixed up!

I did have, though a change of ISP stopped my from accessing it and I forgot to renew the domain name, hence it's fallen off the net. Unfortunately, due to a number of reasons, I've not got the time to rebuild it or redo the graphics to get around crown copyright restrictions on use of some of the stuff I’ve got (like complete Mk 1 Missile technical AP, complete Mk 2 (Restricted) Missile AP, bits of T82, T83, T86 and T87 radar technical AP’s and stuff from the Mk1 and Mk2 Launch Control Posts technical AP’s plus a sh!t load of photos from the wind tunnel model of the original four engined Multi RamJet Weapon (MRJW) design, though the Bristol JTV and XTV1 to 18 test vehicles and XRD prototypes of the Mk 1 and about 600 shots from the Swiss Bloodhound Museum at Gubel (been twice, they have a complete set of RAF Mk 2 AP's all declassifed on the day the system was withdrawn from service in 1999, though on the first trip my Laptop failed and the second, the Archive holder didn't turn up so I couldn't get in to scan the bits I wanted to (like the EC's handbook to find out how the system would have been used operationally)), Also have F540's for most of the missile squadrons and JSTU's from 1958 though to 1975 and various techincal reports to the MoS from Bristol Aircraft, Engines and Ferranti from the start of the Red Duster (Bloodhound's orginal codename) project proper in 1951 though to 1957.
 
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A

Aaron O'Dickydido

Guest
112 Squadron

112 Squadron

I was on No.112 (Bloodhound Mk II) Squadron, RAF Episkopi, Cyprus from 1970 to 1973.


What about the Bloodhounds at RAF Butterworth, Malaya in the 1960s.
 
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MAINJAFAD

Warrant Officer
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I was on No.112 (Bloodhound Mk II) Squadron, RAF Episkopi, Cyprus from 1970 to 1973.


What about the Bloodhounds at RAF Butterworth, Malaya in the 1960s.

Squadron Bloodhound 2 Missiles from both FEAF and NEAF were fired from Aberporth after being flown back in various RAF Transports. 33 Sqn's from Butterworth and 65 Sqn's from Seletar on Singapore. 112's coming back from Cyprus. I think 65 Sqn hold the record for gettting a missile fired at Aberporth in that it was put on the MOTE in the morning for the pre firing checks, and was succefully fired that afternoon. Most Missile pre firing checks took days, seeing that a number of modifications had to be checked the missile for stuff to do with telemetry and safety systems like the WREBUS that had to be fitted.

33 Sqn had 4 'fixed site' Type 87 sections, while 65 Sqn had 3 'fixed site' Type 87 sections and 3 'mobile' Type 86 Sections. Most of the 33 Sqn's kit ended up on 85 Sqn in the UK during the late 70's (along with the kit from 112 Sqn and some from 41 Sqn), while the Type 86's of 65 Sqn went to Germany with the ones of 41 Sqn as part of 25 Sqn. 65 Sqn's Type 87 sections were sold off to the Singapore Air Force. (41 Sqn having the same kit as 65 Sqn)
 
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T93

Sergeant
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RAF Newton

RAF Newton

Back in the 80s I was attending a course at SOETS (RAF Newton) & there was A bloodhound sited in its own compound. Next door to the MT hangar.
 

roverboy

Trekkie Nerd
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We had to do hanger fod plods every friday cos they were re-designated "aircraft" to keep TG2 there servicing the t@ats and even had to do "indies" on the pitot static systems ????? for christ sake as they were now aircraft. "

An old colleague of mine on 25 Sqn used to take great delight in telling us about his previous tour on the Sqn before it was re-equipped with manned A/C. He said that he had to A/F and B/F them!!!!!!
 

MAINJAFAD

Warrant Officer
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Back in the 80s I was attending a course at SOETS (RAF Newton) & there was A bloodhound sited in its own compound. Next door to the MT hangar.

That was the compound of Missile Training Flight, who did the Techie Training for Bloodhound (and also Martel for the Buccs and Red Top / Firestreak for the Lightning’s) Operator training was done at West Raynham. The Flight was located in 4 hanger if memory serves, and there was a Lightning T5 in the hanger, along with a 'Missile Museum' that had a number of guided weapons from early German WWII stuff, though to a dummy 'Skybolt' and Thor IRBM when I first saw it as a Spacey in March 83. The compound contained what was essentially a working Bloodhound Missile battery (known as a Missile Section by the RAF), with both of the radar types that were used on the system, the Launch Control Post (where the operators sat) and a launcher with a missile on it (missile had dummy boosters and all of the bits that went bang removed). By the Time I got there to do the course on the bit I worked on, the Lightning was still there (though the last Lightning AAM course was going though), the Missile Museum had closed, and had mostly gone to Cosford to become what is now the majority of the 'Missile Collection' there. One thing I do remember was a display model of a Bloodhound section that had been built by the exhibition display flight from Henlow for the Queen’s Silver Jubilee display at Finningly in 1977. If you looked behind the Type 87 radar model, there was a figure of an airman doing a p!sh on the side of the radar. Loved the course at Newton, Nottingham just down the road (75p return on a ‘Gash’ bus (the name of the local bus company I Sh1t you not)). Course I did had loads of time off, which resulted in quite a bit of drinking and a heavy overdraft. Down side was that place was the Pig farm, along with the RAF ‘Brain on a chain’ training school at the time which resulted in the place having a number of rather rough Kennel Maids, which lead to a joke about the place.

Q. Which is the odd one out at Newton. A Bloodhound, An Alsatian or a Kennel Maid.

A, The Bloodhound, as it’s a Missile. The other two are dogs.

After the last Red Top /Firestreak courses MTF was moved to North Coates during 1987 as the Bloodhound maintenance school.
 
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sumps

Sergeant
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I would have hated to be on blood hounds, as a sootie i heard that all they did was put fuel in and out of tanks - at Wattisham 25 sqn were allways on exersise - thats no life:pDT_Xtremez_17:
 

T93

Sergeant
879
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That was the compound of Missile Training Flight, who did the Techie Training for Bloodhound (and also Martel for the Buccs and Red Top / Firestreak for the Lightning’s) Operator training was done at West Raynham. The Flight was located in 4 hanger if memory serves, and there was a Lightning T5 in the hanger, along with a 'Missile Museum' that had a number of guided weapons from early German WWII stuff, though to a dummy 'Skybolt' and Thor IRBM when I first saw it as a Spacey in March 83. The compound contained what was essentially a working Bloodhound Missile battery (known as a Missile Section by the RAF), with both of the radar types that were used on the system, the Launch Control Post (where the operators sat) and a launcher with a missile on it (missile had dummy boosters and all of the bits that went bang removed). By the Time I got there to do the course on the bit I worked on, the Lightning was still there (though the last Lightning AAM course was going though), the Missile Museum had closed, and had mostly gone to Cosford to become what is now the majority of the 'Missile Collection' there. One thing I do remember was a display model of a Bloodhound section that had been built by the exhibition display flight from Henlow for the Queen’s Silver Jubilee display at Finningly in 1977. If you looked behind the Type 87 radar model, there was a figure of an airman doing a p!sh on the side of the radar. Loved the course at Newton, Nottingham just down the road (75p return on a ‘Gash’ bus (the name of the local bus company I Sh1t you not)). Course I did had loads of time off, which resulted in quite a bit of drinking and a heavy overdraft. Down side was that place was the Pig farm, along with the RAF ‘Brain on a chain’ training school at the time which resulted in the place having a number of rather rough Kennel Maids, which lead to a joke about the place.

Q. Which is the odd one out at Newton. A Bloodhound, An Alsatian or a Kennel Maid.

A, The Bloodhound, as it’s a Missile. The other two are dogs.

After the last Red Top /Firestreak courses MTF was moved to North Coates during 1987 as the Bloodhound maintenance school.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The Flight was located in 4 hanger if memory serves, and there was a Lightning T5 in the hanger, along with a 'Missile Museum'
+++++++++++++++++++++++

Correct. It was #4 Hanger & there was indeed a Lightning.

The missile compound was physically located just outside & to the right of the entrance/exit of the MT hanger. Number Four hanger was the next hanger down & then SOETS was roughly 200ms further down towards the main gate.

I was given the "guided" tour of MTF by an old oppo of mine who was worked on MTF. Known as "Bird" because of his surname "Avery". I believe when MTF moved, he followed them.
 
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Being a closet anorak, I have read this thread with some interest as the Bloodhound was never really covered much by the media etc.

Just a couple of questions about acronyms though. What are MOTE and WREBUS?

Ta

Jimps
 

MAINJAFAD

Warrant Officer
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Bloodhound Sootie 101 - Long post

Bloodhound Sootie 101 - Long post

I would have hated to be on blood hounds, as a sootie i heard that all they did was put fuel in and out of tanks - at Wattisham 25 sqn were allways on exersise - thats no life:pDT_Xtremez_17:

The Bloodhound sooties did a little bit more than just fuel and defuel the missile.

Though lacking the turning bits of a normal jet engine, the Thor Ramjets on the Bloodhound did have an engine control system which was tested as part of the missile servicing. The Bloodhound Mk 2 carried about 52’ish gallons of Avtur in two bag tanks either side of the wing bay. As well as containing the biggest casting on the airframe which held the moving wing mounts, along with the actuators that moved the wings, at the centre of the bay was the fuel turbopump. This was driven by ram air from a pair of auxiliary air intakes between the ramjets and the mainbody (correct term for the fuselage of a missile). As well as supplying air to the fuel pump, these intakes also supplied air to a hydraulics turbopump which powered the certain mechanical parts of the missile and also supplied air to pressurise the fuel tanks. The fuel pump had two impellers, the front one was driven by the air from the top intake, and feed fuel from the front tank to the upper ramjet. The rear one was feed from the lower intake and fed fuel from the rear tank to the lower ramjet. Each impeller had its speed controlled by a fuel flow sensor that opened a spill valve to dump air before it got to the impeller turbine. Fuel entered the ramjet via a Fuel Air Ratio Control (FARC) system mounted in the island assembly at the front of the engine (behind the shock cone on the engine intake). The FARC measured the altitude of the missile via a pitot mounted on front of the engine shock cone, and controlled the amount of fuel feed to the fuel injectors (Lower altitude, more fuel and vice versa).

There were two sets of fuel injectors on the Thor engine. A single injector fed a pilot combuster can at the rear of the island assembly which kept the engine alight and the fuel fed to it was controlled by the FARC to give a fixed cruise thrust level. Forward of this pilot can was a separate secondary ring of 12 injectors which had their fuel flow controlled by FARC system, along with a device called the Thrust Control Unit (TCU) mounted in the missile mainbody behind the Hydraulics Turbopump. The TCU had two main functions. First it controlled the missile’s speed, below the missile’s cruising speed of Mach 2.7, it allowed the engines to run at full power by allowing maximum fuel flow to the secondary ring of 12 injectors. Once the missile reached its cruising speed and height, the TCU chopped the amount of fuel to the secondary ring and throttled the engine back. (Max power of the two engines was around 10,000/11,000 pounds which for a missile weight with the boosters gone was a thrust to weight ratio of about 4 to 1.)

The other thing the TCU did was cut the amount of fuel going into the engine when the missile did a hard manoeuvre. Mounted on the nose was a cone like device called the incidence switch, which operated if the missile’s pitch or yaw attitude to the direction of flight went over an angle of about 5 degrees. One of the problems that was found with the Bloodhound Mk 1 was that shockwaves in the engine intake which helped provide the compression of the incoming air, moved within the intake when the missile manoeuvred. This lead to a loss of compression (being that there was no turning compressor) and then to an incorrect fuel air ratio, which in a lot of cases led to a flameout due to a rich fuel air mixture. The TCU and incidence switch on the Mark 2 overcame the problem. Each engine had three cartridges fitted to it. One was a gas charge which blew the weather covers off (they forgot to fit them on Bloodhound 1), while the other two were flares which lit the pilot combustor which burnt for about 10 seconds. All three were fired 2 seconds before the boost motors were ignited.

On a missile major the sootie had to remove, refit and test these parts, some guys hated it, some loved it. In a lot of ways it was an easy job. I knew some TG1 guys who were at Raynham for ages.

Being a closet anorak, I have read this thread with some interest as the Bloodhound was never really covered much by the media etc.

Just a couple of questions about acronyms though. What are MOTE and WREBUS?

Ta

Jimps

As for the acronyms:

MOTE – Missile Overall Test Equipment. A large rig that supplied Electrical, Air and Hydraulic oil to a missile undergoing ground servicing, it also simulated the Ground radar used to guide the missile and the reflected echo from the target.

WREBUS – Weapon Research Establishment Break Up System. A Weapons range saftey device designed at the Weapon Research Establishment at Woomera in Australia during the 1950’s. The WREBUS was fitted to a number of British guided weapons and rockets when fired on trial ranges. Basically it was a radio receiver, arming system and a small charge of explosive mounted on the missile airframe (on Bloodhound Mk 2 it was located within the Warhead bay of the missile, just in front of the forward fuel tank). Normally trial missiles were fired sans warhead, the bomb being replaced with an instrument package, which recorded data of a number of missile voltages, signals, fuel flow, Hydraulics pressures and a number of other bits of data on what the missile was doing and transmitted them to the ground. When the WREBUS was armed on launch it would do nothing as long as it received a signal from the ground. Lose the signal due to the range safety officer activating the system (by chopping the signal) or WREBUS receiver failure. The system would blown the side out of the warhead bay and aerodynamic forces would do the rest. Other systems were also tacked on to a trials missile like doppler transponders and alike to allow precise tracking and recording of the missile’s flight path.
 
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